ReCabled Headphones Poll
Jan 6, 2010 at 8:52 AM Post #46 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMIJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Recables are honestly one of the biggest wastes of money in audio that I know of. I am an electrical engineer by profession, and I can tell you that (even though I haven't been in the hi-fi game as long as some of you veterans) if the cord isn't stretching hundreds of feet or an incredibly small guage copper wire, its ability to carry audio signals is entirely unaffected. Headphone manufacturers know this and even overshoot what is necessary in order to placate the image-conscious. If you want to recable for aesthetics or ruggedness fine, but don't say that it'll even get those "last few percent" out of a pair of cans because they simply won't. Trials with straightened-out coathangers used in place of cables showed that listeners couldn't differentiate between the coathanger and the snake oil that is "high-end" cables. I know a lot of recable-believers don't want to hear this, and I can understand that based on how much I've seen some of you spend on cables, but it's the truth. Take five minutes of your time to just do a little academic searching on the web and try to find proof that "better" cables = better audio.

End of rant.



Another shinning example of what I was talking about. If you want advice people, stick with members who have experience with the equipment your interested in.
 
Jan 6, 2010 at 9:07 AM Post #47 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMIJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Recables are honestly one of the biggest wastes of money in audio that I know of.


Buy Denon AH-D1001 and replace the cable. I did it with a cable $2 per meter. Did I waste those money? No. Is there an improvement. Hell, yes! Even previous cable non-believers heard it. Quote:

I am an electrical engineer by profession,


Whoa! Respect! Me too. Quote:

and I can tell you that (even though I haven't been in the hi-fi game as long as some of you veterans) if the cord isn't stretching hundreds of feet or an incredibly small guage copper wire, its ability to carry audio signals is entirely unaffected.


Have you measured this? Surely I don't ask whether you made aural tests. Quote:

Headphone manufacturers know this and even overshoot what is necessary in order to placate the image-conscious. If you want to recable for aesthetics or ruggedness fine, but don't say that it'll even get those "last few percent" out of a pair of cans because they simply won't.


Looks like besides being a certified (wink) engineer, you're a fortuneteller. How many times did you try to replace the stock cable with something optimal from the engineering point of view and evaluate the result? Quote:

Take five minutes of your time to just do a little academic searching on the web and try to find proof that "better" cables = better


Now it's clear what kind of prossional you are when you call web searching "academic" behavior.

Maybe coathangers are good but uncomfortable to use, aren't they? Looks like "snake oil" cables are the alternative.
 
Jan 6, 2010 at 10:41 AM Post #48 of 87
I hope to have my DT880s recabled in a couple of weeks. Will it change the sound? Hmm, not sure. Brains are easily tricked.

Anyway, I made some interconnects out of Mogami and I could swear I heard a difference. Might be placebo but who cares if it sounds better.
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Also what I found of interest with the Mogami ICs that if I put my hand on the cable I could hear static. After that I connected the ground to the source side of the cable and they are completely silent. No more unshielded interconnects for me.
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Jan 6, 2010 at 11:16 AM Post #49 of 87
So, can any of the re-cable believers give scientific prove on how the re-cabling would improve the sound please? Especially those, who dare to give actual numbers (10-15%, how do you measure that?). Because I am interested in the discussion, but I am not convinced that a different cable would make a difference.
 
Jan 6, 2010 at 11:40 AM Post #50 of 87
I couldn't answer your poll because I could have answered yes to all three options. I've experienced improvements, no difference at all, and definitely worse than stock with different aftermarket HD6X0 cables.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 3:23 AM Post #51 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Have you measured this? Surely I don't ask whether you made aural tests. How many times did you try to replace the stock cable with something optimal from the engineering point of view and evaluate the result?.


It is certainly true that I have not performed any tests myself, but the burden of proof is on the recable-believers to justify people spending money to improve their systems. If you are also an EE, can you enlighten us on how a recable improves headphones? I hear people talking about certain cables being "warm" or having various other sound signatures. By what mechanism would cables introduce a unique sound signature to the signal being transmitted, being drawn out pieces of metal?

Furthermore, other parts of the cable business seem mighty shady to me. For example: this company Luminous Audio Technology offers a "cable burn-in service." Again, cables are pieces of metal. Unless the company aims to oxidize the cable by running high current through it (and I certainly hope that's not their aim
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), there is no physical reason why this would be a beneficial thing to do. They are charging customers for a service which has no physical basis, vouching for audible improvement. I call that taking advantage of consumers.

Also: the well-known Jena Labs sells cables at (what I consider to be) astronomical prices here. I'd like to know what the profit margins are on those cables. Are they really using materials and skilled labor that justify the cost of hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a few feet of cable? These companies often use vague terms to skirt around the fact that, again, there is no physical basis for their claims. For example, at Lawton Audio they sell recables costing hundreds of dollars for the HD800 here saying that "The Adrenaline really increases the HD800's FUN-factor." Oh really. Maybe it's fun to look at or feel, but the sound produced won't be any more "FUN."

Finally, if companies manufactured headphones whose cables are the limiting factor in their performance, why wouldn't they change and produce them with adequate cabling so that their customers wouldn't have to recable. You said that you improved the sound of your cans with $2/meter cable. Why didn't Denons product engineers use such a cable then? Surely the $2/meter would be worth it. And especially with the Sennheiser example I provided above, I can't imagine Sennheiser selling their most premium headphones with cables that limit their performance. These companies (for the most part
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) know their stuff. They have salaried employees working to design the best headphones possible within the budget constraints of the company.

Anyways, if you can provide links to a study quantitatively, not qualitatively, demonstrating the superiority of aftermarket cables I would be very interested to see them. In fact, I wouldn't mind in the least if you can prove me wrong and show that recables will provide better audio (especially on such premium phones as the HD800); I welcome the truth as I just don't want to see people spending money where they don't need to be under false pretenses (I'm sure all of our wallets appreciate this sentiment). I don't think that it's fair for companies to sell products boasting audible improvement when none can be shown. Other companies sell demonstrably better headphones and amps with demonstrably higher performance, pointing to lower THD or other better results on other forms of measurement. Companies selling cables need similar proof--that's really just good, fair business practices.

Finally, all of us are free to spend our hard-earned cash in the manner in which we please, and if you like recabling your headphones for whatever reason then be my guest. I just want the matter settled so that people aren't spending money blindly.

P.S.
By the way, if anyone associated with the companies I mentioned is reading this, please don't take offence at my remarks and feel free to refute me.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 3:35 AM Post #52 of 87
I agree with majkel, coathanger wires may have some good properties. Thick and solid is good, less prone to vibration. I bet they were using an air dielectric in that test too.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 4:42 AM Post #54 of 87
I've re-cabled everything 'cause you get the exact length, connector, and techflex color you want. Fun! I am sure my hearing is not good enough to hear a difference, if there even is one.

When I had the D2000's re-cabled by markl we put the D2000 stock cable on the D1001s and I swear it sounded better, but the D1001 really had a cheap-o stock cable.

The head engineer for Sennheiser in the U.S. thinks re-cables are a total fiction (I talked to him personally on one of my groupie visits to Senn HQ in Ct.).
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 5:36 AM Post #55 of 87
I was able to compare a re-cabled vs. stock before re-cabling three of my cans w/ Alex. I heard the improvements and had them re-cabled. The one can that has given me a hard time to find improvements worth spending money on a re-cable is the HD580/600. I tried over 10 different aftermarket cables and IMO only two made enough of a difference to pursue. One was RAL who was not getting my business even though it was the best sounding cable so I went w/ Headphile BlackSilver for the Senn.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 7:00 AM Post #56 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Glad i don't have to prove anything about this to anyone but myself.
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^
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 11:37 AM Post #57 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenixdown110 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Silver cables on a HD650 lift most of the veil. It's one the most apparent changes you notice.


I took your word on that and got the Headphile Blacksilver, and I must say there does seem to be an improvement, albeit subtle. I was expecting a brighter sound, more treble, but of course a cable can't add treble. What I did get was a reduction in the "mud", a focussing of the sound that seems subjectively not so much to lift the veil as some of the darkness of the 650. I guess you could say the silver adds a bit of silver to the sound. Nothing dramatic, but since I've now decided to stick with the 650 I think it's well worth the money.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM Post #58 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I took your word on that and got the Headphile Blacksilver, and I must say there does seem to be an improvement, albeit subtle. I was expecting a brighter sound, more treble, but of course a cable can't add treble. What I did get was a reduction in the "mud", a focussing of the sound that seems subjectively not so much to lift the veil as some of the darkness of the 650. I guess you could say the silver adds a bit of silver to the sound. Nothing dramatic, but since I've now decided to stick with the 650 I think it's well worth the money.


The cable will help reduce the veil. However, your amp is also another deciding factor.
 
Jan 7, 2010 at 9:49 PM Post #59 of 87
"My Headphones were recabled and it definitely made a positive improvement."

it doesn't say anything about sound quality
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Mine didn't do anything except make my headphones look nicer.
 
Jan 8, 2010 at 1:14 AM Post #60 of 87
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbacic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"My Headphones were recabled and it definitely made a positive improvement."

it doesn't say anything about sound quality
wink.gif


Mine didn't do anything except make my headphones look nicer.



Well, a poster earlier said he tried 10 different cables with his 650 and only two made any noticeable difference. Maybe yours wasn't one of the two.
 

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