READ THIS: Serious flaws in ipod classic

[Bob Mahoy]

the main issue is uneven phase response; some frequencies arriving "late."

 

[rhymesgalore]

It's a frequency response chart.

If there would be a flat line on the 0db level, it would mean that every frequency is played back as loud as it is intended to be.

The 5.5g suffered from a bass loss (therefore the big dip n the curve from about 150hz down) when using low impedance headphones.

I'm not trying to say, that this chart is right, and the others are wrong. It's just another piece of evidence.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckypictures /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, to be fair, some people listen to only losless, and can detect a change in sound quality.

Like people can descern a high-quality lossless file and a lossy file.

This is why hype is a bad thing. This is why being a fanboy is a bad thing.

This is why when blind-testing things like headphones, they need to matched within .01dB, or something...

 

[zip22]

the bottom is the frequency. the left is low notes, the right is high notes. the scale on the right is how well those are reproduced. 0 would mean they are spot on perfect. if its higher, that frequency is getting a boost. if its lower, that frequency is being lost. flat is good. at least i'm pretty sure thats what we're looking at.

and thanks for the post rhymesgalore. i was wondering why we were basing everything on unloaded tests. i have little knowledge on the differences of the output stages, but claiming that testing unloaded is ok because both of them had no load doesn't seem right when the 2 models use very different output stages. doesn't the push-pull react differently in an unloaded test than the other type of output stage?

 

[Bob Mahoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Mahoy /img/forum/go_quote.gif the main issue is uneven phase response; some frequencies arriving "late."

read the above

 

[Buckster]

true Bob - but we don't know ..

(1) if tests were flawed ?

(2) that particular Classic was faulty ?

both possible

 

[akira281]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Mahoy /img/forum/go_quote.gif the main issue is uneven phase response; some frequencies arriving "late."

That does seem to be it. However, can it be corrected in a firmware update?

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnychis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Could somebody explain the lines and their meanings as well as the differences?

Well the ideal for this graph would be to have a flat line across +0db. If a unit goes above +0 then it's boosting that frequency and if it goes below then that frequency is dropped off. Every 3db increase then the effective volume of that frequency doubles and the reverse is also true. This means that if you look at the 5.5G belastet, at 30Hz it's 3db below the ideal line so that means that a 30Hz sound wave will sound half as loud as it should. I should also point out than on that graph it looks pretty bad but other models such as the old 4G iPod would roll off faster and earlier than the 5.5G and many headphones will have rolled off even more well before 30Hz too.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricthaman /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, this is bad news for me. I was about to order my very first iPod ever. But since I care about SQ I'm not so sure anymore. I own a Cowon D2 wich is a amazing sounding player. I really like the ipod touch. I see that somebody posted that the ipod touch and iphone would still have a Wolfson DAC. Can any-one confirm this?? Really important to me. Those graphs about the Classics' Frequency response look horrible compared to the 5.5G. And I thought that the 5.5G sounded bad! I hated that one for it's bad SQ. Hoping that the touch is better, I'd really like to have one!! greetz

I posted the quote on Wolfson from a Scottish business source that is very reliable - The article focused on economic impact to Wolfson which is a Scottish company and is as reliable as you're likely to get until somebody rips one open - unlikely Apple would confirm this one way or another.

here's the link: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/busi...?id=1455152007

Chris

 

[Buckster]

but cheaper doesn't mean worse ...

especially if Cirrus Logic wanted to get into the market with Apple - which of course they would want to ...

 

[germanjulian]

me again

ok so I tested with my 5g vs classic and found no real difference. now i tested with my asus xonar soundcard vs classic (5g already sold

) and yes I do notice more treble but having listened intensely for 2 hours to music and feeling tired now all I can say:
ipod + shure E500PTH / SE530PTH + lame @ -v1 = Amazing what technology can do. Fantastic sound and better then any bose sound system for sure

!

and considering that most people use their ipods while on the move sound quality suffers anyway.

 

[germanjulian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif but cheaper doesn't mean worse ... especially if Cirrus Logic wanted to get into the market with Apple - which of course they would want to ...

and I have the feeling we are talking about $5 dollar difference per ipod!

remember apple policy is to make 50% profit on all products

(as seen clearly on the iphone price cut)

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif anyone thought that the IPOD Classic tested could have had a fault ? or testing flawed ? Mark.

That's what I had originally wondered but looking at the measurements I'd never have heard that treble boost with my equipment. I haven't personally noticed spatial anomalies either but again almost all of my listening has been through Shure E500s which aren't good at portraying spatial information anyway. I'm inclined to think then that it's probably a fault in all iPod Classics given how many people are reporting it. I think it isn't a big issue for IEM usage like mine since these essentially mask the anomalies anyway but I hope Apple step up and release a firmware update to fix these issues, especially the phase response. I've still yet to try the Classic with my Stax gear and if anything will react badly to these problems it will be those.

 

[Buckster]

germanjulian - you're right ..

I've always been amazed at the prices of DACs .. when I was really interested in high end CD players etc ... the DACs used to be an important consideration to me... would be like " wow - its got an X high-end DAC .." when I found out even the high-end DACs are like 3 dollars each I was quite surprised !

mirumu- you could well be right !

 

[Sebastianbf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ingwe /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my iPod Classic 160GB I can discern no hiss. However, I can perceive the other audible symptoms described (especially compared with my Zune).

How does the ipod classic compares to the zune in terms of SQ?