Rational reasons to love vinyl
Jul 16, 2015 at 5:37 PM Post #406 of 612
  Obviously the LP does that because it is a mechanical device. It produces noises because physically is propagating, extracting or producing the analog signal as the needle hits the grooves in order to be heard.
 
The problem with LP is that it adds a substantial amount of noise and distortion, noise and distortion that is not part of the recording,decent CD players do not add significant amounts of audible noise, therefore CD is by definition more accurate
 
 
The CD or any other digital crap, is an electrical device that attempts to recreate an analog signal or attempts to give us a representation or samples of what it thinks that it may be. In others words, lie to our ears, it mimics music badly.
 
Yet it produces an output signal music that has less added noise and distortion , a cleaner signal with near perfect pitch and a verifiably better waveform than that extracted from LP it must therefore be more accurate by definition
 
 
An analog scope or any other measuring data device does not measure, space, separation of instruments or vocals, imaging, tridimensionality, tonality, etc.  A guitar could be out of tune and the analog scope will not measure anything wrong with it.  It is up to our ears to judge that.
 
Since CD has superior channel separation across the audible spectrum as well as lower noise it is by definition better at all these things you mention, or at least the ones that actually make any sense, LP has massive cross-channel bleed (a good LP playing system might give you crosstalk of -35db) that is not part of the recording. Take an old early Stereo recording which has bass/vocals on one channel and guitar/drums on the other the CD will give you just that , the LP will mush the channels, you might prefer it but no way is it more accurate.
 

 
So then let's look at some more limitations of vinyl, how about the level at which we record different frequencies
 
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/LP1/KeepInContact.html
 

 
 
 
from the above we can see that based on the physics of the cutting operation there are pretty well-defined limits on the levels you can encode onto LP. The levels of high frequency sound you can even encode are severely limited especially as you hit the label. below the FR for a first gen iPod
 
 

 
 
How about the actual performance of a well regarded cart

 
How about THD vs frequency for an old CD player
 

 
Jul 16, 2015 at 6:15 PM Post #407 of 612
Hi Nick
When I click on the image for the cart I see Taylor Swift charts
 
Jul 16, 2015 at 6:42 PM Post #408 of 612
Hi Nick
When I click on the image for the cart I see Taylor Swift charts

 
 
really, how strange - I just get the images 
confused.gif

 
Jul 16, 2015 at 6:57 PM Post #409 of 612

"Rational reasons to love vinyl"

Outside of nostalgia or wanting to show off how much disposable income you have by purchasing a $200,000.00 turntable + another $100,000.00 in needed accessories,
NONE
It's a totally obsolete, inferior, antiquated media.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 3:56 AM Post #411 of 612
 

"Rational reasons to love vinyl"

Outside of nostalgia or wanting to show off how much disposable income you have by purchasing a $200,000.00 turntable + another $100,000.00 in needed accessories,
NONE
It's a totally obsolete, inferior, antiquated media.

 
If it wasn't for the LP uber alles flat-earther's, it wouldn't get any bandwidth at all.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 4:43 AM Post #412 of 612
I think vinyl is extremly bad technicaly.... double dsd or anything 192khz and up schiits all over the vinyl.If you want carp sound that is very imperfect but organic sounding I would get some tda1541 NOS dac,maybe some tube dac.Something like audio note or lampizator over vinyl anyday.... the cracks and pops,the horrible noise,the wear and damage....
 
many people believe digital volume control is best,TotalDac uses 69 bit,also no pre amp is best pre amp
 
 
I respect that ppl like the low quality flavor of vinyl but truth is hi rez + totl dac is better and cheaper
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 7:00 AM Post #413 of 612
Quote:
 

"Rational reasons to love vinyl"

Outside of nostalgia or wanting to show off how much disposable income you have by purchasing a $200,000.00 turntable + another $100,000.00 in needed accessories,
NONE
It's a totally obsolete, inferior, antiquated media.

Not that I'm a fan of vinyl -- less a couple of unique masterings exclusive to this medium -- but it just sounds like you disregarded the entire thread and wanted to have a go at people. This is the Sound Science section, not the Sound Science Circlejerk section.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 11:00 AM Post #416 of 612
Presenting vinyl as necessarily having superior SQ to even just average digital goes against science.


But one's subjective preference does not. Nor does one saying vinyl sounds better to them. In those respects, science is ambivalent and should not be used as a cudgel to beat up on such people.

se
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 11:34 AM Post #417 of 612
I think it’s entirely possible to be at either end of the spectrum and be WRONG.
 
I’ve stated before that I still enjoy listening to vinyl and tubes and want to understand WHY. (96% of my listening is digital for sheer practicality).
 
100% understand and agree with all of the advantages (technical and practical) of digital but again still want to understand why so many people express preference for Vinyl/Tube. Much of the preference can be explained by nostalgia, tactile pleasure of physical medium etc. but I’m still CURIOUS if there are psycho-acoustic principles behind why some people hear digital as “bright”, “thin” etc.  Not everyone is a “Flat Earther” but are not also 100% convinced that there might not be inherent properties in either medium that affect how people perceive (and enjoy!) music. Like it or not our brains are heavily involved in how we “hear” music and if there is a physical aspect to reproduction that affects how our brains interpret then it would be a real variable.
 
Not that I want to defend or promote vinyl/tube I simply want to understand if there is some aspect of my digital setup that I might ENJOY tweaking purely for my PLEASURE based on that learning.
 
Gift from my Wife

 
Jul 17, 2015 at 11:50 AM Post #418 of 612
   
I’ve stated before that I still enjoy listening to vinyl and tubes and want to understand WHY. (96% of my listening is digital for sheer practicality).
 
but I’m still CURIOUS if there are psycho-acoustic principles behind why some people hear digital as “bright”, “thin” etc. 
 

 
 
While I am a big digital fan when I briefly re-invested in vinyl a few years back there was something about it (if you can ignore the noise)  that was quite honestly very nice to listen to. I am at a loss to objectively say exactly what it was, but I cannot deny it, rationally I know it is nothing to do with better accuracy, but that does not stop the fact that there was something there. However the noise was just so bad that it was in the end intolerable for me when listening to classical music which has many quiet parts. For popular music it would probably not have bothered me so much.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM Post #419 of 612
 I’m still CURIOUS if there are psycho-acoustic principles behind why some people hear digital as “bright”, “thin” etc.  

 
its simple,low quality DACs.....   I believe multibit NOS way is the way its supposed to be played,any conversion or oversampling,any filters,these things give that harsh treble and thin sound.
 
audio note,lampizator,totaldac,metrum....
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 12:44 PM Post #420 of 612
NOS is a terrible way to design a DAC. Also, inexpensive ordinary DACs do just fine at generating a low-distortion, perfectly flat frequency response. They do not have harsh treble or thinness.
 

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