[Exacoustatowner]

I see you list a Rega RP3 in your siggy, I used to own a Rega Planar 3, that was the last TT I owned and the no 1 reason I went digital in late 84.

Aside from anything else Regas,  including the latest RP3,  are notorious for running fast (approx 0.8% fast in the case of the RP3, my Planar 3 was 1% fast which is shocking) , so in fact when you listen to your Rega you are listening to an unnaturally bright sound as the pitch for all notes is falsely increased, do you not notice this?. Yet a CD that maintains a perfect pitch is somehow bright, hmm...

You've heard of the "third eye"? It's a Mystical thing- you need to open your 3rd Ear to perceive superiority of vinyl.

 

[old tech]

What about this one:
 

 

Or what about this one:

 

Nice looking equipment... custom made for audiophools who listen to the equipment than the music by spending $10k on old technology which still wouldn't match a $200 CD player for sound quality. .

 

[LNuneek]

The newer vinyl that is made from music that is mastered digitally seems to be prone to sibilance and can be a little annoying to listen to. Besides this I enjoy the extra character that vinyl brings to the table sound wise. Vinyl made when everything was analog sounds much better. It is certainly not for everyone though regardless.
 
CD and digital does bring a much more pure clean sound. I can't knock anyone for preferring that at all. The convenience is great too.

 

[old tech]

[Mod Edit: "I forgot to read the Posting Guidelines."]

 

[Steve Eddy]

[Mod Edit: "I forgot to read the Posting Guidelines."]

 

[judgmentday]

   
 
I see you list a Rega RP3 in your siggy, I used to own a Rega Planar 3, that was the last TT I owned and the no 1 reason I went digital in late 84.
 
Aside from anything else Regas,  including the latest RP3,  are notorious for running fast (approx 0.8% fast in the case of the RP3, my Planar 3 was 1% fast which is shocking) , so in fact when you listen to your Rega you are listening to an unnaturally bright sound as the pitch for all notes is falsely increased, do you not notice this?. Yet a CD that maintains a perfect pitch is somehow bright, hmm...

What are you talking about? You know about digital only. You are used to listening to digital brightness, edgy and thin sound.  You have no idea how a TT sounds.  My RP3 TT puts to shame lots of expensive DACs even my California Audio Labs Alpha DAC. When listening to expensive TTs there is not even comparison with Digital recordings. LPs are very emotional, they move you, they make you feel reality, not like CDs that are dry, sterile, edgy, thin and worse bright.  When I listen to CDs I want to skip a track, I'm forced to lower the volume, etc.  To each his own.

 

[judgmentday]

  The newer vinyl that is made from music that is mastered digitally seems to be prone to sibilance and can be a little annoying to listen to. Besides this I enjoy the extra character that vinyl brings to the table sound wise. Vinyl made when everything was analog sounds much better. It is certainly not for everyone though regardless.

Exactly, mastered digitally is very bad, but the worse it is that there is no good analog mastering, mixing and recording engineers anymore. That's the reason why the old vinyl is still king. As I understand the mastering for a LP is different than the one for CD.  So in part that's why LPs sound better than CDs.  No many mastering or producing people are interested in a good analog mastering for LP. LPs are a niche market and that's why is a better market technic just to go digital because is cheaper, easy, anyone can do it, it's convenient, easy to sell, but sounds like crap.
 

 CD and digital does bring a much more pure clean sound. I can't knock anyone for preferring that at all. The convenience is great too.

Yes, it is a clean sound but also it is bright and thin. You listen to representations of the actual music.  Convenient? yes.  I even use them to pickup my dog's poop.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Exactly, mastered digitally is very bad, but the worse it is that there is no good analog mastering, mixing and recording engineers anymore. That's the reason why the old vinyl is still king. As I understand the mastering for a LP is different than the one for CD.  So in part that's why LPs sound better than CDs.  No many mastering or producing people are interested in a good analog mastering for LP. LPs are a niche market and that's why is a better market technic just to go digital because is cheaper, easy, anyone can do it, it's convenient, easy to sell, but sounds like crap.

Yes, it is a clean sound but also it is bright and thin. You listen to representations of the actual music.  Convenient? yes.  I even use them to pickup my dog's poop.

What does "bright and thin" mean? If the FR of the digital device is 20-20 KHz +- 0.1 db then it must be your transducers that have peaks in the treble and dips in the midrange. Right? If your phono cart gives you peaks in the mids and rolled off treble then it might be compensating. It makes no sense to say a CD player is bright when it has a flat response.
I can't speak for current music as lots is mastered for cheap earbuds. I listen to classical and Jazz vocals.

 

[nick_charles]

 
What are you talking about?
 
Your TT does not produce an accurate/real signal as it cannot play at the correct speed, therefore it does not represent reality.
 
You know about digital only.
 
I grew up with vinyl and was listening to vinyl from the 60s up to when something better came along viz CD, when I heard CD for the first time in 1984 I heard a lack of spurious noise that was driving me mad when listening to vinyl
 
You are used to listening to digital brightness, edgy and thin sound. 
 
No I am listening to a playback system that is more accurate than vinyl by almost all rational criteria
 
You have no idea how a TT sounds.  
 
I have a very good idea how vinyl sounds which is why I no longer listen to it. Back in the 80s I went to many HiFi shows and listened to a lot of expensive analog gear in showrooms across London, I upgraded my stereos from low end BSR multichangers, Garrard TTs, to Sony automatics then a Transcriptors Saturn then finally the Rega, the first CD player I heard was so massively superior to all of them in terms of lack of spuriae that I went digital on the spot. Nevertheless a few years back I experimented and bought a brace of relatively expensive 80s Denon TTs and an amp with a phono stage and guess what all the noise and grunty I remember was back again - thanks but no thanks
 
 
 

 

[judgmentday]

What does "bright and thin" mean? If the FR of the digital device is 20-20 KHz +- 0.1 db then it must be your transducers that have peaks in the treble and dips in the midrange. Right? If your phono cart gives you peaks in the mids and rolled off treble then it might be compensating. It makes no sense to say a CD player is bright when it has a flat response.
I can't speak for current music as lots is mastered for cheap earbuds. I listen to classical and Jazz vocals.

Brightness: Too much high frequency or treble, also known as "digititis"
Thin:  is having little depth, being lean or not having a lot of body. Lacking resonance or fullness; tinny: Instruments sound small, not real. The piano had a thin sound.
 
also, these two produce fatigue.
 
Listen to individual sounds and you will notice that they sound loud but small, also vocals sound out of place.  In the LP,  instruments and vocals appear in the space as if you can see them. 

 

[judgmentday]

Your TT does not produce an accurate/real signal as it cannot play at the correct speed, therefore it does not represent reality.

It does not sound as a $5K ~ $10K TT but beats my California Audio Labs Alpha DAC. Out of almost 500 CDs, No CD sounds even close to one of my LP collection. No recording represents reality but LPs are close, no CDs though. 

  I grew up with vinyl and was listening to vinyl from the 60s up to when something better came along viz CD, when I heard CD for the first time in 1984 I heard a lack of spurious noise that was driving me mad when listening to vinyl

Quite the opposite! For serious listening, when I heard LP I was very impressed. After that, all digital recordings sound bad to me even 24bit/96kHz.

 No I am listening to a playback system that is more accurate than vinyl by almost all rational criteria

I can hear lots of problems with CD.  Some instruments are not even there.  Bass sounds so metallic, Cymbals sound horrible bright, Vocals totally out of place, horrible indeed.
 

 I have a very good idea how vinyl sounds which is why I no longer listen to it. Back in the 80s I went to many HiFi shows and listened to a lot of expensive analog gear in showrooms across London, I upgraded my stereos from low end BSR multichangers, Garrard TTs, to Sony automatics then a Transcriptors Saturn then finally the Rega, the first CD player I heard was so massively superior to all of them in terms of lack of spuriae that I went digital on the spot. Nevertheless a few years back I experimented and bought a brace of relatively expensive 80s Denon TTs and an amp with a phono stage and guess what all the noise and grunty I remember was back again - thanks but no thanks

You should go to a place where they have and know about TTs and LPs.  You really will be amazed and how good it sounds but you will never go back to your CD collection.  That's what happened to me.  Or better yet, don't go because you will have to spend so much cash. $50k to start.

 

[old tech]

p> 
You should go to a place where they have and know about TTs and LPs.  You really will be amazed and how good it sounds but you will never go back to your CD collection.  That's what happened to me.  Or better yet, don't go because you will have to spend so much cash. $50k to start.
 

But still no metrics to back your claims. I must go and see my astrologist to again explain to me why the science's view of the solar system is so wrong.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

 
Brightness: Too much high frequency or treble, also known as "digititis"
Thin:  is having little depth, being lean or not having a lot of body. Lacking resonance or fullness; tinny: Instruments sound small, not real. The piano had a thin sound.
 
also, these two produce fatigue.
 
Listen to individual sounds and you will notice that they sound loud but small, also vocals sound out of place.  In the LP,  instruments and vocals appear in the space as if you can see them. 

My reference is live Orchestral sound-and voice. I attend several live Symphony concerts per year. This is my reference. I have SACD's of the Same Orchestra in the Same Hall, with the Same Conductor. While I still prefer Live- sitting 8 rows back in the center- the recording does a remarkable job. I can hear localization of instrument sections (imaging), soloists, choir, etc. Quite remarkable. I suppose you would need cotton in your ears to block the Brightness as it was definitely BRIGHTER than what I hear with the recording.. Nothing out of place. I also have PHOTOS of the Arrangement of the Orchestra-to compare with my recording. So you will tell me its all messed up and thin. Not experiencing that. 
So then you evidently believe that the analog signals sent to the amplifier somehow shift the flat FR to boost the treble? I listen to plenty of live piano. Most recently a Steinway played by Garrick Ohlsson. Sounded fantastic! So does the recording… Odd that. Maybe someone hid a Record Player in my SACD player?

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Judgement Day Actually

p>  
You should go to a place where they have and know about TTs and LPs.  You really will be amazed and how good it sounds but you will never go back to your CD collection.  That's what happened to me.  Or better yet, don't go because you will have to spend so much cash. $50k to start.

 

OLD TECH WROTE:" But still no metrics to back your claims. I must go and see my astrologist to again explain to me why the science's view of the solar system is so wrong."
Acoustatowner WROTE: Your quotes are messed up. But you really should look into opening your third (Mystical Ear). 
 
There ARE no metrics to substantiate the claims. Everything that was used for years to differentiate amongst cassette, Reel to Reel and Phono Carts and needles became WRONG when CD appeared. Frequency response? Bah! Completely wrong and pointless. S/N, IM, THD, all pointless. 
It really is amazing that science got that spacecraft 3 billion miles away to it's target. 

 

[Steve Eddy]

It really is amazing that science got that spacecraft 3 billion miles away to it's target. 

You don't actually believe that do you?

se