[samandhi]

What about iems such as the MEST series? (and others those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head) I feel like they perhaps make the housing rumble in a way that is audible, even though it's technically not touching your bone. Kinda like you can still hear bone conduction headphones like Shokz even if they aren't on your head.

Maybe the hook x bass is just that well tuned who knows, I just know I haven't heard a planar iem bass that sounds like it (have tried hook, timeless, and s12). I kinda hope it is just a really well tuned planar because that means other planar iems in the future can reach the same level and I don't have to look for ones labeled bone conduction

If you can hear sounds without making contact with bone, then it isn't "bone conduction" but is soundwaves via vibrations which is what I am suggesting to begin with.

With true bone conduction you cannot hear it unless it contacts your bone (except for a vibration), and the nifty part about bone conduction is that you don't feel is as much as you actually hear it (your going to feel it locally but hearing it at your ears, though due to the way it is being delivered you feel the vibration on your skin). All that is happening when you use bone conduction is that it is bypassing your outer ear and going straight to the auditory nerve (Cochlear Nerve). This is why it has been used for supplemental hearing aids for many years (since the 40's or so).

You can experiment with this using an old phone (that you aren't worried about possibly burning up the amp section). You just need to take a motor from an electric tooth brush, hook a wire to it, then a connector to plug into the ouput of your phone to the wire. Then you just need a rod that has been hollowed out enough that the drive of the motor doesn't contact it to the point of it not being able to spin a little bit. Once you have done this, simply put the rod in between your teeth and you will HEAR the sound (though as mentioned earlier, you will also feel it locally, but will hear it in your ears).

 

[captainhook88]

As the Hook is somewhat open, does it leak sound? As in: is my wife able to sleep when I listen to them next to her?

 

[Bret Halford]

As the Hook is somewhat open, does it leak sound? As in: is my wife able to sleep when I listen to them next to her?

Yes. Not close to as much as a full open back and it depends a fair bit on the musical content:

I posted way back in the thread an electronic track with some nasty higher frequencies that leaked quite a bit from my hooks' back grating.

The sound was enough to wake our infant on her lap across the living room (~15 feet). I would guess your wife will definitely hear them in bed next to you.

 

[captainhook88]

Yes. Not close to as much as a full open back and it depends a fair bit on the musical content:

I posted way back in the thread an electronic track with some nasty higher frequencies that leaked quite a bit from my hooks' back grating.

The sound was enough to wake our infant on her lap across the living room (~15 feet). I would guess your wife will definitely hear them in bed next to you.

Thanks a lot for your quick reply. That sorts them out for me, I guess

 

[Bret Halford]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply. That sorts them out for me, I guess

They are a really nice sounding Planar, I do very much like them, but yeah they do leak a bit.

You might want to check out Tangzu's Wu Zetian, pretty similar FR to the Hook in the mids and lower mids, and a heft more sub bass... they are classic closed IEMs so no worries about leakage. I've not heard them, but a lot of positive impressions about them...

 

[samandhi]

As the Hook is somewhat open, does it leak sound? As in: is my wife able to sleep when I listen to them next to her?

Yes. Not close to as much as a full open back and it depends a fair bit on the musical content:

I posted way back in the thread an electronic track with some nasty higher frequencies that leaked quite a bit from my hooks' back grating.

The sound was enough to wake our infant on her lap across the living room (~15 feet). I would guess your wife will definitely hear them in bed next to you.

I think that is also going to depend on the volume you are listening to them at. As for me, I use them for sleeping every night, and my wife doesn't hear a thing. I mainly listen at 60dB or less when going to sleep.

I just tried to see how loud I might have to have these to have leakage from the backside (covering up the ear tips with my fingers and with some prog rock), and I have to have them somewhere around 100dB+ in order to even barely hear them while holding them at my waist (that is 50% on a 2W amp). I CAN hear them more so if I put them up to my ears (still holding the tips but facing the back side towards my ears) up to about 5 inches away. But as you can see from differing reports YMMV.

@Bret Halford what volume did you have them at to be able to hear them (enough to wake a baby) from 15 feet away? Most of my open back headphones don't even get that loud unless I am blasting them.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply. That sorts them out for me, I guess

Personally, I wouldn’t say they “leak” much more than most closed back IEMs. The HOOK-X is pseudo-open at best. Yes, the upper treble can escape the housing on some tracks but as a bystander you’d have to be in a particularly quiet room and sitting fairly close to notice it. I personally wouldn’t consider “leakage” as a problem with the HOOK-X. YMMV of course.

 

[Bret Halford]

@Bret Halford what volume did you have them at to be able to hear them (enough to wake a baby) from 15 feet away? Most of my open back headphones don't even get that loud unless I am blasting them.

I believe I noted the levels in UAPP reported when we discussed this previously. I ran tests down to -30 dB and could still make out (and block via occlusion) the leakage an arms length away. I have not encountered other tracks that leak to the same extent, but then again I don't use my hooks on a daily or even weekly basis tbh. <edit: here is where I answered this question for you before: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raptgo-hook-x-in-ear-monitor.962907/post-17096071> IIRC correctly, you couldn't hear the leakage at all, but of course I don't believe you are running stock tips / cable etc as I am.

Certainly, I am fortunate that my living room is generally a very quiet environment and while all 3 of us have healthy hearing, our infant girl's is likely far more sensitive than the typical head-fier and definitely better than mine. YMMV.

 

[samandhi]

I believe I noted the levels in UAPP reported when we discussed this previously. I ran tests down to -30 dB and could still make out (and block via occlusion) the leakage an arms length away. I have not encountered other tracks that leak to the same extent, but then again I don't use my hooks on a daily or even weekly basis tbh. <edit: here is where I answered this question for you before: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raptgo-hook-x-in-ear-monitor.962907/post-17096071> IIRC correctly, you couldn't hear the leakage at all, but of course I don't believe you are running stock tips / cable etc as I am.

Certainly, I am fortunate that my living room is generally a very quiet environment and while all 3 of us have healthy hearing, our infant girl's is likely far more sensitive than the typical head-fier and definitely better than mine. YMMV.

OH no, don't take me wrong. I am not saying it didn't happen for you (and after re-reading it I now remember) in exactly the way you described. I just wanted to let the OP know that this isn't typical for all of us when using the Hook-X. I would hate to see someone pass on such a great set based on one account alone.

Having done some of my own tests (though much less scientific) that must be one hell of a frequency that that song hits to produce the results that you are seeing. In a quiet room I can only JUST hear them without covering them at all from 15 feet away, while cranked to distortion levels. Either way, it is all good.

I am running the stock cable on mine, but not stock tips (wide bore squarish). But I am also not aware of how stock tips or even cable might affect this particular test?! Weren't we talking about how much/little the (semi-open) back leaks sound? I am certainly not trying to be argumentative with you. It is difficult to post findings that don't line up with others in text without sounding like it is condescending or just plain argumentative. I don't mean this at all. I am only offering a differing finding so that the next person has more information to work with. Because your findings make it sound like these things leak as bad as open back headphones, or worse if you are waking up children from 15 feet away with low volume level.

 

[Bret Halford]

OH no, don't take me wrong. I am not saying it didn't happen for you (and after re-reading it I now remember) in exactly the way you described. I just wanted to let the OP know that this isn't typical for all of us when using the Hook-X. I would hate to see someone pass on such a great set based on one account alone.

Having done some of my own tests (though much less scientific) that must be one hell of a frequency that that song hits to produce the results that you are seeing. In a quiet room I can only JUST hear them without covering them at all from 15 feet away, while cranked to distortion levels. Either way, it is all good.

I am running the stock cable on mine, but not stock tips (wide bore squarish). But I am also not aware of how stock tips or even cable might affect this particular test?! Weren't we talking about how much/little the (semi-open) back leaks sound? I am certainly not trying to be argumentative with you. It is difficult to post findings that don't line up with others in text without sounding like it is condescending or just plain argumentative. I don't mean this at all. I am only offering a differing finding so that the next person has more information to work with. Because your findings make it sound like these things leak as bad as open back headphones, or worse if you are waking up children from 15 feet away with low volume level.

If you reread my response, I explicitly noted it was nothing like an open back.

By all means share your experience of these isolating to your satisfaction. I appreciate you're not trying to be argumentative, but making assumptions (twice now!) about others' listening levels comes across as dismissive to me.

Here is the track in question so you have the (horrid) frequency on hand.It's quite loud in the mix, but yeah I think it makes the piezo driver a little bonkers on my pair at least:

 

[samandhi]

If you reread my response, I explicitly noted it was nothing like an open back.

I did, and I saw you saying that.

By all means share your experience of these isolating to your satisfaction. I appreciate you're not trying to be argumentative, but making assumptions (twice now!) about others' listening levels comes across as dismissive to me.

It was never my intention to be dismissive. And to you I apologize. What you misunderstand is that I am not trying to change your mind or make assumptions about you or yours.

But...you took a sound (not really a song at all) that is akin to a dog whistle and/or siren's screech (through most of the recording) and used that for a test to establish what others would look at as an everyday scenario for leakage for these. I am only putting it out there that on MOST normal sounding music you will rarely hear any leakage from them (and especially that far away), so that others interested in these (but not sure if they want them if they leak a lot) don't get mislead into thinking you can wake a baby from 15 feet away at low volume levels listening to a song that doesn't focus on frequencies that can shatter glass.

Here is the track in question so you have the (horrid) frequency on hand.It's quite loud in the mix, but yeah I think it makes the piezo driver a little bonkers on my pair at least:

It REALLY does have some horrid frequencies going on... hehe

 

[Bret Halford]

I did, and I saw you saying that.

It was never my intention to be dismissive. And to you I apologize. What you misunderstand is that I am not trying to change your mind or make assumptions about you or yours.

But...you took a sound (not really a song at all) that is akin to a dog whistle and/or siren's screech (through most of the recording) and used that for a test to establish what others would look at as an everyday scenario for leakage for these. I am only putting it out there that on MOST normal sounding music you will rarely hear any leakage from them (and especially that far away), so that others interested in these (but not sure if they want them if they leak a lot) don't get mislead into thinking you can wake a baby from 15 feet away at low volume levels listening to a song that doesn't focus on frequencies that can shatter glass.

It REALLY does have some horrid frequencies going on... hehe

When an IEM wakes up my baby 15 feet away from leakage in incidental usage, it's noteworthy to me and I'll absolutely share it when somebody asks if said IEM leaks or not. In fact, in addition to explicitly noting they're nothing like open backs, I also qualified that it was dependent on music in my original reply...

It's not my favorite Ulver track, let alone remix but I doubt I'm alone in listening to a range of music. It's not a test track I use, I literally just happened to be at that point in their discography when I got my Hooks a few months back. Frankly I bet there are other tracks in my library that would leak worse, but I've little interest in investing the ear time with the hooks it would take to find them.

 

[samandhi]

When an IEM wakes up my baby 15 feet away from leakage in incidental usage, it's noteworthy to me and I'll absolutely share it when somebody asks if said IEM leaks or not. In fact, in addition to explicitly noting they're nothing like open backs, I also qualified that it was dependent on music in my original reply...

Yes, you did, however you also went on to say simply that:

I would guess your wife will definitely hear them in bed next to you.

which, again I say is a bit misleading.

Maybe, based on that song alone (which has some rather odd frequencies). But even WITH that song, I conducted the same experiment with my wife sitting about 15 feet away from me in a totally quiet room. I DIDN'T cover the tips and asked her to tell me when she could hear them. Now, I don't have scientific measuring equipment to know the output volume exactly, but I can tell you it was above 110dBSPL (roughly concert sound levels). Next, I did the same thing but covering up the tips. She was not able to hear them at all at the same dB level, and only able to barely hear them at much higher levels (levels that there is no way I would ever put into my ears).

My argument is that even uncovered and not in a person's ears, a small IEM cannot get loud enough to be so loud as you are alluding to (or only JUST) without being at "distortion" levels. So, to be that far away and be THAT loud and having the tips covered, they would HAVE to leak as much as an open back headphone (relative to their size).

Maybe you have an extra powerful set or something, but I (and others that ARE interested in hearing more of the Hook-X) have noticed that they do NOT leak enough to wake a person lying next to them at normal levels or lower (being below and including 60-70dB)

 

[Bret Halford]

I can't speak to your wife's hearing or how loud your living room is. I havn't made any claims about SPL 15 feet away, just that it was audible for me, my wife and enough to wake out baby.

I'm sorry if that is heresy for you, but maybe just share your own satisfaction and let others do the same. The zealotry feels like cope.

 

[samandhi]

I can't speak to your wife's hearing or how loud your living room is. I havn't made any claims about SPL 15 feet away, just that it was audible for me, my wife and enough to wake out baby.

I'm sorry if that is heresy for you, but maybe just share your own satisfaction and let others do the same. The zealotry feels like cope.

Well, then let us simply agree to disagree and keep passive aggressive comments to ourselves?!