Music Alchemist
Pokémon trainer of headphones
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So I'm wondering...if the Harman HRTF is the compensation curve that produces a perceived flat frequency response in headphones, why do so many who have heard the STAX SR-009 report that it is the most neutral headphone they have heard? Are all these people deluded?
You should tell us about how you think the Sony MDR-V6 is more neutral than every other headphone, like you mentioned in that other thread.
Some people say the Sony MDR-7506 is supposed to be the same headphone and thus sound the same, but you told me your V6 sounds better to you. My 7506 is so bright and nasty it's painful sometimes!
What nonsense. English is my native language and the only language I know. I had a college reading level at age 6. I'm 28 now. There is nothing I am incapable of comprehending.
I never said anything about most realistic bass; I said they have measurably flat bass, which you happened to agree with.
Yes, FR is only the beginning of a headphone's sound, but if you are going to say that a headphone's bass is flat, you might as well be consistent with your terminology. There is no point calling a headphone's FR flat if it follows the green line and the green line is in fact not what produces a perceived-to-be-flat (as in the same perceived sound as a flat-tuned speaker system in a room treated to produce a balanced frequency response) FR.
If you say that the Harman curve is what produces an accurate sound in headphones, then measurably flat bass should follow it instead. The green line (flat speaker HRTF) should be discounted entirely if it has no relevance to perceived accurate sound in headphones.
But tell me this...why do all planar magnetic headphones follow the green line instead of the black one in the bass, if they are supposed to follow the black one to be neutral to our ears? This question must be answered to support the assertion that the Harman curve is more accurate for headphones.
Good points.
The Bose QC15 is the most exciting headphone I've heard. (See my profile for past gear.) It has boosted bass and treble, so I guess you could say it's warm, yet also bright.
I must wonder...why would all these headphone companies with enormous experience design their headphones with a frequency response centered upon the flat speaker HRTF curve if it was not what would produce a perceived flat frequency response in headphones? You'd think they would not be so incompetent as to get that wrong...but honestly, I have seen no evidence to suggest that the Harman curve is accurate. All I have seen is: people prefer it. Well, so what?
I too think Audeze, even the LCD-X, sound too thick, buttery/vaseline-y, and dim/dark for my tastes.
But I like very sharp, clean, detailed phones.
You should tell us about how you think the Sony MDR-V6 is more neutral than every other headphone, like you mentioned in that other thread.
Some people say the Sony MDR-7506 is supposed to be the same headphone and thus sound the same, but you told me your V6 sounds better to you. My 7506 is so bright and nasty it's painful sometimes!
At this point I'm just going to assume you're not an English speaker and blame this constant misunderstanding-- or rather failure to see my point-- as a language barrier
What nonsense. English is my native language and the only language I know. I had a college reading level at age 6. I'm 28 now. There is nothing I am incapable of comprehending.
I've said it at least 2 time within the past couple of posts that my comments about planar magnetics all having measurably flat bass, yet still sounding different in the bass response, was only geared as a retort to your remark about how they're all touted as the most realistic in the bass. This has nothing to do with interpreting accuracy in which it relates to this notion of neutrality based off FR data, but only to illustrate a point which I've been trying to make time and time again in this topic-- one that you seemingly can't get your head wrapped around-- in that FR measurements aren't the end-all story when it comes to perceived sound.
So I will try to make it crystal clear again:
Take this for what it is, and nothing more. This response has nothing to do with target curves and which methodology is more accurate than the other. This has only to do with the limitations of measurements-- particularly in the bass region for this specific case.
I never said anything about most realistic bass; I said they have measurably flat bass, which you happened to agree with.
Yes, FR is only the beginning of a headphone's sound, but if you are going to say that a headphone's bass is flat, you might as well be consistent with your terminology. There is no point calling a headphone's FR flat if it follows the green line and the green line is in fact not what produces a perceived-to-be-flat (as in the same perceived sound as a flat-tuned speaker system in a room treated to produce a balanced frequency response) FR.
If you say that the Harman curve is what produces an accurate sound in headphones, then measurably flat bass should follow it instead. The green line (flat speaker HRTF) should be discounted entirely if it has no relevance to perceived accurate sound in headphones.
But tell me this...why do all planar magnetic headphones follow the green line instead of the black one in the bass, if they are supposed to follow the black one to be neutral to our ears? This question must be answered to support the assertion that the Harman curve is more accurate for headphones.
I feel those two terms have always meant very different things.
I feel warmth means, as others have said, a pronounced bass and lower mids response, coupled with enough 2nd & 3rd order harmonic distortion to make those aforementioned areas of the frequency range, sound overly smooth, soft, and pleasing. This warmth can be present in a headphone with a bright top end, or a dark/dim top end.
I feel dark/dim, specifically means a headphone which lacks treble quantity. Or a closed phone which has sooo much bass and lower mids, that by sheer volume and refraction, drowns out the highs.
Good points.
The Bose QC15 is the most exciting headphone I've heard. (See my profile for past gear.) It has boosted bass and treble, so I guess you could say it's warm, yet also bright.
So Tyll is smarter than the engineers at Sennheiser who are using the wrong graph?
I must wonder...why would all these headphone companies with enormous experience design their headphones with a frequency response centered upon the flat speaker HRTF curve if it was not what would produce a perceived flat frequency response in headphones? You'd think they would not be so incompetent as to get that wrong...but honestly, I have seen no evidence to suggest that the Harman curve is accurate. All I have seen is: people prefer it. Well, so what?