[Sebasistan]

The sales man or woman.

Once the sales man has sussed out their customer they use the word which the customer wants to hear.....outcome sale!

Have you noticed how all the IEM manufacturers say in their blurb on phones with Est, the particular set "has been in development for...", take your pick, 2,3,4 years. The fact is the drivers may have been in development for however many years but the particular set was dreamt up recently because those drivers now exist.

My point is those selling to us will dream up the angle on which they can sell their "vintage" product. Such as "in its day no other product could match it, today you have to pay a fortune for quality like this vintage masterpiece". Solid 1920s bakelite....in reality plastic in its infancy.

Edit: prematurely posted - please reserve your comments on that.

Have you noticed painting are old but not vintage. Whereas cars are vintage but not old.

I mean, in that regard I would say, vintage is old, but still usable without too many issues.
Old is... IDK, something that's old but simply not usable unless you're investing a lot of energy.
In terms of cars, IDK, a fancy / cool car from the 70s is vintage, whereas a Ford Model T would be OLD?
Where would that fall in audio gear, maybe an old ass pair of headphones from the 40s that you'd need to completely rewire to use at all would be OLD. A pair of headphones from the 70s that's already using a standardized plug that's still in use today would be vintage? (Unless it's like an off brand cheap thing that for some reason still works. I guess in that case it's a question of the sales person and the overall condition.)

At the end of the day it's very malleable and I guess you're right it's ultimately a sales pitch.

 

[ChrisOc]

I mean, in that regard I would say, vintage is old, but still usable without too many issues.
Old is... IDK, something that's old but simply not usable unless you're investing a lot of energy.
In terms of cars, IDK, a fancy / cool car from the 70s is vintage, whereas a Ford Model T would be OLD?
Where would that fall in audio gear, maybe an old ass pair of headphones from the 40s that you'd need to completely rewire to use at all would be OLD. A pair of headphones from the 70s that's already using a standardized plug that's still in use today would be vintage? (Unless it's like an off brand cheap thing that for some reason still works. I guess in that case it's a question of the sales person and the overall condition.)

At the end of the day it's very malleable and I guess you're right it's ultimately a sales pitch.

Your examples are an indication of the fact that it is highly subjective. Although I have to say the Model T point is an illustration of practicality, as most (who can afford to do so) would buy the Model T for display purposes, rather than to use in any practical or effective sense.

There lies a valid distinction, are we looking at a functional item or a display item, be it a car, audio or other? Clearly a painting, ornament, or similar display items categorise themselves as they are not functional. Whereas a bottle of wine (for those who care for wine) serves a function as it is consumable.

Then comes the issue raised by @GREQ, is it a question of semantics or substance. In any case, who is the authority (which we all, or most of us, accept as competent) to define, what is simply "old" and what is "vintage". This is where the salesman does his bit.

Arguably there are too many variables of perception and taste to definitely determine what is, "old" and what is, "vintage".

When it comes to audio, unless I have guidance, I would not know what is "old" or "vintage" but I would expect a functional item that would deliver good sound quality, regardless of the classification.

What I do know is that I am a sucker for art deco. The effective simplicity of the design language of that era just does it for me.

 

[JEHL]

Probably a very random thing even for this thread but is kinda fascinating to be able to actually hear this game's strange artifact where it seems that the author either can't silence the triangle wave or just plain does not want to, while all other channels can be silenced, so it just sets the triangle wave to the lowest tone possible which seems to be around 24Hz.

All the gear that I tried to play this on rolls off the bass long before this tone can be heard, so you only hear that 800Hz(?) or so artifact that it produced presumably due to the Ricoh 2A03's lack of dynamic range I assume. The notable exception being the BLON BL-03, which seems to produce a crazy amount of rumble in comparison. Even my nephew's Beats Solo3's bass rolls off before it can play this tone properly, although I guess bass extension on headphones must be substantially more difficult.

Also I wonder if anyone has seen views of any song like this, although I wonder if electronically produced music are the only ones where this kind of view is feasible where each channel can be recorded independently from each other.

... I also wonder if it may be best to not link this at all as it wouldn't surprise me if entire head-fi community finds this to be ear rape.

But I'm also curious how other people test bass extension, to the point where I wonder if this music's 24Hz floor is amateur by comparison.

Spoiler

 

[GREQ]

Probably a very random thing even for this thread but is kinda fascinating to be able to actually hear this game's strange artifact where it seems that the author either can't silence the triangle wave or just plain does not want to, while all other channels can be silenced, so it just sets the triangle wave to the lowest tone possible which seems to be around 24Hz.

All the gear that I tried to play this on rolls off the bass long before this tone can be heard, so you only hear that 800Hz(?) or so artifact that it produced presumably due to the Ricoh 2A03's lack of dynamic range I assume. The notable exception being the BLON BL-03, which seems to produce a crazy amount of rumble in comparison. Even my nephew's Beats Solo3's bass rolls off before it can play this tone properly, although I guess bass extension on headphones must be substantially more difficult.

Also I wonder if anyone has seen views of any song like this, although I wonder if electronically produced music are the only ones where this kind of view is feasible where each channel can be recorded independently from each other.

... I also wonder if it may be best to not link this at all as it wouldn't surprise me if entire head-fi community finds this to be ear rape.

But I'm also curious how other people test bass extension, to the point where I wonder if this music's 24Hz floor is amateur by comparison.

Spoiler

I grew up with the NES and still own it and a bunch of games, so I can safely say that this is pretty much just the limitations of the NES synthesiser.
You will hear these kinds of artefacts on other NES game soundtracks for sure, albeit to a much lower degree, but the video you posted is actually a very brutal example, laying the faults of the NES bare for all to see... and hear.
Most NES game soundtracks don't have such a huge emphasis on deep basslines and low drum kicks.

So it's not your headphones that are struggling, it's the NES synthesiser.

 

[IEMusic]

Continued from another thread.....

I have said many times , I have had many blissful experiences listening to music even from old cassette players. So objective SQ is one thing, level of enjoyment is a whole other thing. A line should be drawn to how much we wanna be a tool in the hands of mind.

Me too, and I enjoy many of my inexpensive IEMs along with my costlier ones. The less expensive IEMs do not, however, make the more expensive ones any less valuable to me or less enjoyable, o/w why be here at all. Just enjoy the ear buds that came with your phone and call it a day. After all, some music is better than no music.

You clearly have an appreciation for nicer sound equipment, o/w why would you have spent thousands on your current collection.

 

[ehjie]

This is a Great brandless unbiased thread!
Re: In ears in general
@IEMusic, have you come across your personal Flagship being heavily influenced by a mid range IEM on Bass?
Why i ask?
This happened to me. I'm so obsessed (light sleep for months, lols) and cannot accept the fact (my personal TOTL lose out) that I looked around the entire headfi thread & outside of these confines, and made a crazy purchase on a LOT of ear tips.
Only to find these inexpensive popular brand did the job! lols...

 

[IEMusic]

This is a Great brandless unbiased thread!
Re: In ears in general
@IEMusic, have you come across your personal Flagship being heavily influenced by a mid range IEM on Bass?
Why i ask?
This happened to me. I'm so obsessed (light sleep for months, lols) and cannot accept the fact (my personal TOTL lose out) that I looked around the entire headfi thread & outside of these confines, and made a crazy purchase on a LOT of ear tips.
Only to find these inexpensive popular brand did the job! lols...

I’m sorry, I don’t understand your question. I will say that the most intriguing IEMs for me tend to be at certain key price points....between $100-200 (NM2+, Believe, FH3, L4), between $250-$350 (LZ A7, FD5, DM8), and between $700-900 (TA Twins, Volt, IT07).

 

[ehjie]

I’m sorry, I don’t understand your question. I will say that the most intriguing IEMs for me tend to be at certain key price points....between $100-200 (NM2+, Believe, FH3, L4), between $250-$350 (LZ A7, FD5, DM8), and between $700-900 (TA Twins, Volt, IT07).

I was pertaining to the Orb's Bass qualities (usd.259). There's nothing wrong w/ the bass qualities from my 1670ss, neutral bass lovers w/ mid bass emphasis will surely love this.
But comparing to the Orbs,is not enough by quantity.
From a recent splurge of ear tips, i finally got the appropriate tips to do the job, a better louder bass, Sony hybrids...

 

[Deolum]

Always thought buying headphones is complicated. Just bought my first pair of speakers and now i know how easy the headphone biz is. Pretty lucky i live in a flat and can't buy a proper speaker system now.

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

Well, headphones don't depend on your room, so it's way easier. They can sound good everywhere, speakers can't. From a diy perspective it's the other way around, sadly

 

[IEMusic]

Always thought buying headphones is complicated. Just bought my first pair of speakers and now i know how easy the headphone biz is. Pretty lucky i live in a flat and can't buy a proper speaker system now.

What speakers did you get? Don’t underestimate the quality of sound that you can get from a small nearfield monitor setup.

Well, headphones don't depend on your room, so it's way easier. They can sound good everywhere, speakers can't. From a diy perspective it's the other way around, sadly

So true! The room is a variable that makes up almost half of the equation when it comes to a speaker system. Thank goodness for advancing modern-day DSP systems for room EQ correction, but it still has definite limits.

 

[Deolum]

What speakers did you get? Don’t underestimate the quality of sound that you can get from a small nearfield monitor setup.


So true! The room is a variable that makes up almost half of the equation when it comes to a speaker system. Thank goodness for advancing modern-day DSP systems for room EQ correction, but it still has definite limits.

The Neumann 120 A. I really much like them. My room is completely untreated though and i won't do something about it.

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

My room is completely treated. Difference between day and night, way more noticeable and more satisfying than every 5 figure piece of equipment I've ever bought.

 

[IEMusic]

The Neumann 120 A. I really much like them. My room is completely untreated though and i won't do something about it.

That’s one of the advantages of a near-field setup. You can adjust placement of the speakers vs their rear boundaries/walls, but if your listening position is close enough, than hopefully the other walls won‘t cause much interaction at your listening position.

 

[Whazzzup]

My head gets treated weekly