[bigshot]

Its a lot of fun to read and write impressions

This is true of the internet as a whole, not just home audio. People go on social media or internet forums ostensibly to learn from other people, but end up just speaking for their own benefit. You see those kinds of people all the time- they reply to posts without reading them, they get mad if someone questions them, and they never ask anyone else for info or recommendations. There are people who truly do know their stuff and become natural leaders in a forum, but there are quite a few who don't know a lot and just assume an attitude of authority. They suck in general consensus like a vacuum cleaner and spit it out like passages from the Bible. I have a couple of forums I participate in with a person like this. They usually don't like me because I question things they are parroting, and they don't have enough personal knowledge on the subject to answer my questions. So they just get mad at me... I think I am a lightning rod for assholes sometimes.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Just reading another forum about the topic of NOS vs. oversampling DACs I see the same arguments without any objective base. They say that NOS is able to give more "musicality" and "more mids" and "it feels more analog" without knowing that the lack of oversampling removes the headroom upsampling DACs have and the possibility to add filters that after oversampling the possible errors in the signal, can either remove them or place them way outside of any threshold of hearing of any human. NOS only brings more possibility for errors to creep in the signal and distort it, and the lack of filters also introduces the interference of ultrasonics and it opens the door for IMD to increase. My problem isn't that they buy those DACs since it's their money and they can do whatever they want with it, but they describe them as if they were the absolute best compared to regular upsampling DACs, when objectively they measure worse.

 

[old tech]

Just reading another forum about the topic of NOS vs. oversampling DACs I see the same arguments without any objective base. They say that NOS is able to give more "musicality" and "more mids" and "it feels more analog" without knowing that the lack of oversampling removes the headroom upsampling DACs have and the possibility to add filters that after oversampling the possible errors in the signal, can either remove them or place them way outside of any threshold of hearing of any human. NOS only brings more possibility for errors to creep in the signal and distort it, and the lack of filters also introduces the interference of ultrasonics and it opens the door for IMD to increase. My problem isn't that they buy those DACs since it's their money and they can do whatever they want with it, but they describe them as if they were the absolute best compared to regular upsampling DACs, when objectively they measure worse.

Well, the "it feels more analog" may generally be true which is why they are best avoided.

 

[KeithPhantom]

To better educate myself I've been reading more about digital filters; this article is perfect explaining the different types of filters.

 

[Krassi]

not a lovely and refreshing thread here with no fairy dust magic talk ;(
deleted

 

[AudioThief]

Lovely and refreshing thread here with no fairy dust magic talk
You get this subjective point of view evangelists in every hobby area.. i experienced this with kitchen knifes too and in some forums there are people that talk complete bull and other people are praising them for their nonsense.. Snakeoil is flowing like a fountain and the usual..

for me the biggest turningpoint in believing all this stuff was when i listened to a old pretty worn down pair of 70s AKG K340 with their old crap cable and crap earpads on a crap amp with no EQ... hmm sounded better than all my new hightech snakeoil junk... hmm made me start to think that i got a slave to marketing crap und believing anything..

Also when i go cycling i use my 30 bucks cheapo koss kph30i on my hiby r3.. because its perfect.. sounds good and i am not killed by a car because i still hear whats happening around me..

And now i have 70 full range phillips loudspeakers.. that sound amazing.. with the cheapest good copper cable i could get.
And so on

Whats really a big point in all this is that people dondt get happy with what they have but always are looking for something better .. or what they think is better

Yup. Its incredible how the imagination can run amok when you read about "high end" gear. I remember owning the Fidelio X2s and reading about this and that headphone in different categories, and imagining all its weak points, and how incredibly smooth it could all sound if I just got a new headphone + a new amp and a new dac. And improvements did of course come, nothing more staggering than my switch to electrostatics. But of course once I entered estats, the snakeoil flowed even more wildly. And of course for someone sitting there with the best sounding rig possible to their ears, they will still be able to imagine sometihng sounding better. So they go buy cables, or a black box with a switch. I remember getting a schiit eitr, converting USB to coax. And I could swear it was one of the most staggering differences ever made to my system! Of course it was all in my head. But because I found fault in my system on certain tracks, I so wanted it to be fixed by this little box, and I was so ready for everything to be perfect - so it magically fixed the very errors I believed my system had.

Of course the errors I was hearing was the headphones and only the headphones. And the errors wasn't actually errors, but rather wishful thinking.

 

[Krassi]

deleted

 

[castleofargh]

R2R/multibit vs Delta-Sigma - Is There A Measurable Scientific Difference That's Audible

 

[Krassi]

deleted

 

[bigshot]

no

 

[magicscreen]

I figure, if it’s that difficult to hear a difference in a simple blind listening test, it flat out doesn’t matter. Paying more money for quality I can’t hear is a waste. I’ve done controlled comparisons between every piece of equipment I own, from a $40 Walmart DVD player up to an Oppo HA-1 and they all sound exactly the same to me. They should... they are designed to be audibly transparent. You can’t prove a negative, so it’s the responsibility of people claiming audible differences to provide evidence that real people actually heard a difference. It’s easy to just think up reasons why something *might* be audible. And it’s easy to do a controlled test to prove it.

You cannot hear a difference. Sorry it is only your loss. Use that $40 Walmart DVD player and be happy.
Somebody can hear difference he will use the Oppo HA-1 and he will be happy.
I do not understand your problem here.

 

[bfreedma]

You cannot hear a difference. Sorry it is only your loss. Use that $40 Walmart DVD player and be happy.
Somebody can hear difference he will use the Oppo HA-1 and he will be happy.
I do not understand your problem here.

So you've ABX or blind tested a $40 DVD player and a more expensive unit and were able to identify them in a statistically meaningful way?

 

[bigshot]

Somebody can hear difference he will use the Oppo HA-1 and he will be happy. I do not understand your problem here.

I seriously doubt that anyone can hear a difference. The reason I pick one player over another is features, not sound quality. If you had taken the time to do a little controlled testing too, you would know that. It isn't difficult and a switcher isn't expensive. The only reason NOT to do your own tests is because you don't want to know the truth. I can understand that if you have a great deal of money invested into a lie.

I'm not the one with a problem here.

 

[magicscreen]

So you've ABX or blind tested a $40 DVD player and a more expensive unit and were able to identify them in a statistically meaningful way?

Sorry, I am not a greenhorn audiophile. You cannot trick me this ABX and blind testing audiophile bullsht

 

[bigshot]

You are in the wrong forum, pal. You need to go back to the places where people are allowed to guess and make crap up.