It is not uncommon in modern HiFi to run into design innovations that are technically interesting or even brilliant but of unknown audible benefit. Really, you need not mire yourself in this thread and fall under the scrutiny of everyone who demands ABX tests. We have bigger fish to fry, there are charlatans out there who don't even try--they'd just wrap a regular cable in garden hose or charity stickers in flowery prose and sell them for thousands apiece.
If HiFi were only about what is necessary and scientifically provably audible, we'd all be rocking $100 integrated HiFi systems and $100 7.1 HTIBs and it would be everyone's job to make these audibly transparent and they'd succeed at it too
Personally I'd be fine with that but... that's not how it actually works (unfortunately)
Hi Joe B
Sorry I have been run off my feet this week. The front of the house is getting a facelift, my wife got some money from her super and we got the landscapers in. Also, got involved in issues about loudspeakers elsewhere and so on.
I asked two questions earlier (I recall) and they were answered. But they also revealed, via the second answer, what the purpose is for starting this thread originally. So while distracted elsewhere I decided there was no rush, and then a discussion related to speakers broke out on a different forum...
My answers to what this forum is really about are typed in below.
I have to attend SAC tomorrow, the Sydney Audio Club, and they are featuring my new hybrid amplifier and upgraded Oppo is the source, plus a phono stage as well. I am not the MC, but I need to be there.
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OK, back to the trenches and everybody else here:
I don't know if the
battle between objectivists and subjectivists will ever stop. Honestly, to me, much of it is just noise and
both sides have good and bad points. I think my problem is, in order to exist or survive, or just to get along. I have to be on both sides. So let me make some simple points here, so that people reading this thread can clearly understand my position, that it is a considered position that I have contemplated in depth:
A. To be a total objectivist you almost have to ignore your natural senses and play the distrust card, you become an ideologue - and yet
measurements are hugely important and trying to get a correlation between what we measure and what we hear, is one of the ultimate challenges and will be for a long time. I am right now working on an aspect of where it can be argued that the current of the amplifier can be corrupted by the speaker's load. If this is true, then it must be measurable, so some objectivists have brought down a challenge that it should be measured, and they are right to do this. So we are now looking and preparing for such a measurement. This is an actual science endeavour and if achievable,
everybody is a winner.
B. I do feel subjectivists get one thing right: When you sit down and listen to music, at that moment that is all you want. What most subjectivists want is uncomplicated and they have a right. Who cares about numbers and ABX at the moment when you just want to enjoy music. But some things are very difficult to subject to ABX tests, they are not always universal as a solution. But alas, some subjectivists can also be so irrational and quick to jump to unsubstantiated conclusions. This, of course, irritates some objectivists.
But it's not a reason to start a war. The worst kind of subjectivist suffers from what I call "instant reviewer syndrome" and they don't listen because they are always in "review mode" - even I find that extremely irritating. Yet simple-minded subjectivists who know little about electronics has every right to sit just down and enjoy relaxed listening. They should also be allowed to express themselves, as to what they hear. Simple people who keep things simple are my kind of people.
C. Never assume on a forum whether the other person is an objectivist or subjectivist. Ask him first. The answer may turn out different from what you thought. On forums I get instantly lumped in with the subjectivists and that is just plain wrong. I only have to utter a single word of mild criticism of ABX tests and they go off on me, without justification. That is not how intelligent people should conduct themselves. You don't have to force a person to be a square peg or a round peg. Don't try to be an "instant reviewer" of the other person. Or else you may be guilty of character assassination. If that kind of assassination was real and physical, then
I have died a thousand deaths online.
D. Don't underestimate that
many are in audio professionally because that is also their passion - some of these people I know could make a lot of money doing something they like less. Also, look for the good in other people,
don't assume all they want to rip you off. Yes, there are some who will, but even a retail salesman in a Hi-Fi shop should be given a chance. And I also know some should get the boot instantly, but what I have found is that 'flakes' are transient in the industry. That salesman who wanted to sell you a pair of speakers because they had "the best high-frequency dispersion of any speaker in the entire world" will soon be gone. Yes, I heard a salesman say that with my own ears. I did not know if to laugh or cry. But there are good and bad people in every industry. Take a little time, you will soon figure out who is the bad, but sometimes it takes a little longer to figure out who the good ones are. These are the ones that you will come back to, time and again.
So I hope that is a bridge, but most of all, to those who have never met, not even talked to me on the phone:
Just don't be a judge, jury, and executioner. OK?
Cheers to all of you.
Joe R.