[A_Dying_Wren]

Hey guys,

Got a HD650 recently with the anticipation of buying a proper source/amp for it later. The sound does sound alright, not fantastic, out of my portable players. My main beef with the HD650 now and when I auditioned it at a shop is the lack of detail. Something at least on par with my UM3X would be swell.

So for a budget of $400 total how can I extract the most detail out of the HD650s? Which amps and DACs should I be looking at? A used K.I.C.A.S. caliente paired with a Nuforce uDAC is what I'm thinking as of now.

Yes I did search and no I'm not very good at searching. Most people say "This amp is better for the HD650 at x dollars" but I need detail in particular.

Should I be looking at completely different headphones? I quite like the frequency response of the HD650. If only I could mate a HD650 with a K702...

EDIT: Maybe the Caliente isn't so great. I hardly need more bass.

 

[peanuthead]

Looks like a good implementation of DynaLo design, even approved by Dr. Gilmore himself...

Acoustic-Fun

I've enjoyed HD650 with Gilmore Lite and GS-1 (also DynaLo's) and they should certainly provide what you're looking for.

 

[A_Dying_Wren]

Thanks for the recommendations peanuthead. A Gilmore Lite is probably well out of my budget but that other amp looks promising. I'll dig around

 

[adrift]

Do you have any idea if you'd prefer with tubes or solid state?

 

[userlander]

Maybe you'd like a different phone, something like a DT990 comes to mind. Although I probably shouldn't say anything - I haven't heard any one of those phones.

Still, based on reading, when you said HD650 + K702 I thought of the DT990. Maybe someone with more experience can say whether it's a good idea or not.

 

[A_Dying_Wren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrift /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you have any idea if you'd prefer with tubes or solid state?

Can't say for sure as I haven't really tried excellent versions of either but I suspect the HD650s will do nicely with solid state. Heard them briefly with two expensive amps and I think I liked the solid state (i think it was solid state) one more than the darkvoice 337.

I'm not exactly sure what the delineation is besides tubes having a warm tubey sound which doesn't help too much. A brighter source would be very much appreciated in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe you'd like a different phone, something like a DT990 comes to mind. Although I probably shouldn't say anything - I haven't heard any one of those phones. Still, based on reading, when you said HD650 + K702 I thought of the DT990. Maybe someone with more experience can say whether it's a good idea or not.

I missed a $29 DT770 on headphone solutions which was very annoying. I dunno If I'd like the DT880s but I doubt it. I've also read conflicting reports about the DT880s soundstage which doesn't bode well. Warmer phones also seem to be my thing. Just need some darn detail.

 

[jh4db536]

you need a good source. if you up for a little challenge you could make a stereo Opus DAC for that price range. About 200 including the transformer & usb module and spend the rest on a chassis. you will probably have to spend a 1000 to get performance rivaling this.

my Opus is more detailed than my DAC1. it is a very high end DAC for very little money. the catch is you have to put it together yourself. Luckily everything except for the powersupply is pretty much pre built. you would just have to link the modules, solder output jacks, and power cord/connector. if you like it, you could increase the investment in chassis.

Opus - A Balanced DAC

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Dying_Wren /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can't say for sure as I haven't really tried excellent versions of either but I suspect the HD650s will do nicely with solid state. Heard them briefly with two expensive amps and I think I liked the solid state (i think it was solid state) one more than the darkvoice 337. I'm not exactly sure what the delineation is besides tubes having a warm tubey sound which doesn't help too much. A brighter source would be very much appreciated in any case. I missed a $29 DT770 on headphone solutions which was very annoying. I dunno If I'd like the DT880s but I doubt it. I've also read conflicting reports about the DT880s soundstage which doesn't bode well. Warmer phones also seem to be my thing. Just need some darn detail.

DT770 =/= DT990.

And there's nothing wrong with the DT880 soundstage -- it bodes very well.

When I didn't like the sense of detail from HD600, I went to DT880 and thought that had a lot more, or more accurately that it's presented differently and feels like more. So I imagine it would be similar going from HD650 to DT990. But I can't really be a good judge of that since I've never heard the 650s.

One thing that's fairly sure is if you want more detail, you should probably go toward the SS end of the spectrum and away from tubes. The C-2C might work as it has amazing detail and not a huge amount of bass presence. And as you noted the caliente gets a lot of good reviews with the HD650s. I can personally recommend the PH100 as having a lot of power and midrange, but I can't say how it would sound with 650s. Maybe look into the Meier amps, as they seem to do well with higher impedance beyer phones, maybe they would be a good match for senns, I'm not sure.

 

[cwoo]

I highly recommend the Millet MiniMax Hybrid. The solid state power amps have plenty of juice to drive the hd650 and with the signal amp being tube, it gives you the chance to roll tubes to find the sound you are looking for. I really like the synergy with the 12AE6 tubes. All frequencies are presented quite well and this amp truly brings out some phenomenal detail while keeping that silky hd650 feel.

Check the FS section. This amp can usually be found for ~$300.

 

[Palpatine]

Don't spend too much time comparing the detail of the HD 650 if you are just playing it out of a portable player. The portables wouldn't have enough oomph to bring out any sort of deatail of these high impedence phones.
Although not the best set up, even listening to this phone out of my iPod ( apple lossless files!! ) connected to my desk amp ( line out...not headphone jack ) sounds very detailed.
Get a cheaper tube amp...like a LD Mk II or III. You will probably have enough left over to save towards a nice starter DAC.

 

[sampson_smith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like a good implementation of DynaLo design, even approved by Dr. Gilmore himself... Acoustic-Fun I've enjoyed HD650 with Gilmore Lite and GS-1 (also DynaLo's) and they should certainly provide what you're looking for.

Good to hear, peanuthead. I've got a slight hankering for a HD600 or 650 and it's good to know that I've likely got the amp for that misadventure, whenever my wallet next allows it.

 

[feifan]

I get the most detail from the HD650 in my balanced rig. Also, the bass punches in crisp, deep, and tight.

 

[SP Wild]

I prefer the sound of my 650 with the Cayin HA1A - set on pentode, match output impedance to 300 ohm. The amp is perfect. I also own K701.
the result is a difference that you described. the bonus is there is no, tubey sloppiness, but valve brilliance - all extended to the sweetest of highs - with better timing, no midbass blur/ hump, more sub bass precision and body, unbeleivable midrange. compared to my black cube linear - it blows it out of the water in every way possible. Details - galore, from an all valve amp.

downside - minor humm can be heard when silent. but its so worth the hum to experince the performance.

 

[A_Dying_Wren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 /img/forum/go_quote.gif you need a good source. if you up for a little challenge you could make a stereo Opus DAC for that price range. About 200 including the transformer & usb module and spend the rest on a chassis. you will probably have to spend a 1000 to get performance rivaling this. my Opus is more detailed than my DAC1. it is a very high end DAC for very little money. the catch is you have to put it together yourself. Luckily everything except for the powersupply is pretty much pre built. you would just have to link the modules, solder output jacks, and power cord/connector. if you like it, you could increase the investment in chassis. Opus - A Balanced DAC

That is a pretty nice DAC. I just happen to have absolutely no idea how to put one together myself as I've never soldered. I plan to learn how in the many months I have to kill after I graduate so perhaps this would be a great upgrade option a few months down the road. Meanwhile, $300 (including shipping and a chassis) seems a bit much for a DAC at the moment.

Thanks a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif DT770 =/= DT990. And there's nothing wrong with the DT880 soundstage -- it bodes very well. When I didn't like the sense of detail from HD600, I went to DT880 and thought that had a lot more, or more accurately that it's presented differently and feels like more. So I imagine it would be similar going from HD650 to DT990. But I can't really be a good judge of that since I've never heard the 650s. One thing that's fairly sure is if you want more detail, you should probably go toward the SS end of the spectrum and away from tubes. The C-2C might work as it has amazing detail and not a huge amount of bass presence. And as you noted the caliente gets a lot of good reviews with the HD650s. I can personally recommend the PH100 as having a lot of power and midrange, but I can't say how it would sound with 650s. Maybe look into the Meier amps, as they seem to do well with higher impedance beyer phones, maybe they would be a good match for senns, I'm not sure.

Hmm... I'll give the Beyers a listen next time I go audition stuff as when time permits. The HD600s are very similar to the HD650s except everything feels a bit darker with the HD650s.

I'd probably agree to go more SS but as Boomana points out, there's a vast grey area here.

I may be able to squeeze a Meier Swing into my budget. I'll dig around a bit on that. Maybe I should wait till I can afford the Cantate which I think I've read good reviews of. C2C is another possibility if also a little pricey. Lots to research. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwoo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I highly recommend the Millet MiniMax Hybrid. The solid state power amps have plenty of juice to drive the hd650 and with the signal amp being tube, it gives you the chance to roll tubes to find the sound you are looking for. I really like the synergy with the 12AE6 tubes. All frequencies are presented quite well and this amp truly brings out some phenomenal detail while keeping that silky hd650 feel. Check the FS section. This amp can usually be found for ~$300.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palpatine /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't spend too much time comparing the detail of the HD 650 if you are just playing it out of a portable player. The portables wouldn't have enough oomph to bring out any sort of deatail of these high impedence phones. Although not the best set up, even listening to this phone out of my iPod ( apple lossless files!! ) connected to my desk amp ( line out...not headphone jack ) sounds very detailed. Get a cheaper tube amp...like a LD Mk II or III. You will probably have enough left over to save towards a nice starter DAC.

I figured a portable won't have enough power. I did quite like what I heard at the shop and that was just with a cheap Maverick D1 and an Ibasso D10.

A nice starter DAC would be the uDAC most probably. Its either that or the Musiland 02 but I hardly need more than 44/16 for now. I don't think anyone's done subjective comparisons. Anyway, that still leaves around $300, maybe $400 if its really that good, for a proper amp. Would the LD amp still be recommended?

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get the most detail from the HD650 in my balanced rig. Also, the bass punches in crisp, deep, and tight.

Balanced would be nirvana but I highly doubt you could get a decent balanced rig for less than say $700 for cables, amp and dac. Am I wrong? I would definitely not mind if I were so here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif I prefer the sound of my 650 with the Cayin HA1A - set on pentode, match output impedance to 300 ohm. The amp is perfect. I also own K701. the result is a difference that you described. the bonus is there is no, tubey sloppiness, but valve brilliance - all extended to the sweetest of highs - with better timing, no midbass blur/ hump, more sub bass precision and body, unbeleivable midrange. compared to my black cube linear - it blows it out of the water in every way possible. Details - galore, from an all valve amp. downside - minor humm can be heard when silent. but its so worth the hum to experince the performance.

The Cayin HA1A is a bit too much for my budget. I also need to throw a dac in there. Shipping to Singapore wouldn't be cheap either.

And I absolutely cannot stand any hum whatsoever I'm afraid. I listen a fair bit to songs where silence, at points, is golden. Thanks anyway.

 

[cwoo]

I wish I had a balanced setup for my hd650. I was just listening to them last night and was blown away at how incredible they sound. If only I had $1000 for a balanced b22... I can't even imagine what these phones would sound like through a setup like that.