[James Pena]

It likes high impedance cans the best. It doesn't do real well with low impedance planars. If yours are above say 150 ohm it will do great. But no I would not call it a versatile amp but it is one of the best for the 650(6xx's) and is also very good with my 800's and 700's and K240 sextetts. If you still want some tube goodness that will play well with all of yours I would look for a hybrid amp.

Are there any hybrid amps you would recommend?

 

[100VoltTube]

A Lyr 2 or Vali 2 should be good if you want a hybrid.
Have you considered DIY?

 

[James Pena]

A Lyr 2 or Vali 2 should be good if you want a hybrid.
Have you considered DIY?

Yeah I could get those amps, but here's the problem, these amps don't have balanced inputs. If I want a hybrid amp with a balanced input, I could get the mjolnir 2. However, the mjolnir 2 costs $849 and it's not a DAC combo. If I add the Bifrost to that, it's in extra $399 or Bifrost multibit for $599. A grand total of $1248 or $1448(taxes not included). My budget is $500 or less. I'm hesitant to do a DIY amp/DAC because I don't know anything about building audio equipment of any kind. Is building an amp/DAC complicated or complex to do? How do you build one?

 

[100VoltTube]

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you needed balanced inputs. Most amps and DACs at that price aren't balanced, except the Jot. Why do you want the balanced inputs?

DIY is a mixed bag in terms of difficulty. Some amps are fairly easy to build, like the ones I've listed here. Many DIY amps come as kits, like the crack. You get all the parts you need, and usually instructions for assembling it. Take a look at the crack manual for an idea of what that looks like to make a point to point (no board) build.
The butte is also an easy to build DIY amp. It doesn't come as a kit, but it's not hard to get all the parts you need. See the innerfidelity review for more details. Pete Millet has a TON of cool designs on this site, all of which he sells the PCBs for, but none are kits so to speak.
His new one is also quite cool, and it has detailed assembly instructions.
There's also always the O2.

None of those have balanced inputs, though. You won't find that until you get into more difficult projects. This glass-ware board, for example. It's a buffer (no gain) that can easily drive headphones. It doesn't come with a power supply, though, so you'd need to get that separately (probably from here)

Dual mono is also an option. You could buy (or make) two stereo amps with single-ended ins and outs, then wire up adapters to have each of the 2 amps amplifying one channel (L or R) and each of the channels in the amp amplifying one phase of the signal. Like this.

 

[James Pena]

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you needed balanced inputs. Most amps and DACs at that price aren't balanced, except the Jot. Why do you want the balanced inputs?

DIY is a mixed bag in terms of difficulty. Some amps are fairly easy to build, like the ones I've listed here. Many DIY amps come as kits, like the crack. You get all the parts you need, and usually instructions for assembling it. Take a look at the crack manual for an idea of what that looks like to make a point to point (no board) build.
The butte is also an easy to build DIY amp. It doesn't come as a kit, but it's not hard to get all the parts you need. See the innerfidelity review for more details. Pete Millet has a TON of cool designs on this site, all of which he sells the PCBs for, but none are kits so to speak.
His new one is also quite cool, and it has detailed assembly instructions.
There's also always the O2.

None of those have balanced inputs, though. You won't find that until you get into more difficult projects. This glass-ware board, for example. It's a buffer (no gain) that can easily drive headphones. It doesn't come with a power supply, though, so you'd need to get that separately (probably from here)

Dual mono is also an option. You could buy (or make) two stereo amps with single-ended ins and outs, then wire up adapters to have each of the 2 amps amplifying one channel (L or R) and each of the channels in the amp amplifying one phase of the signal. Like this.

I want balanced inputs because they provide more power for headphones and I heard that that improves sound quality more than single ended. After receiving my new 6XX, I wanted to go to an audio store to buy a balanced amp and cables and then try it. Also, I'd like a versatile amp that works with all headphones. Some headphones come with a balanced cable and no single ended. Some time in the future, I might buy more pairs of headphones, including headphones with balanced cables, to experiment with different sound signatures and to add them into my collection.

 

[100VoltTube]

To quote myself on the topic of balanced:

Balancing is an interesting thing. The headphones don't care if they're balanced or not, but the amp is balanced all the way through, there can be advantages. A "balanced" signal is just a signal that has 2 signals, 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Having both signals means that the designer of the amp can use all sorts of cool, low-distortion topologies that sound subjectively better. Balanced topologies also have the advantage of having massive PSRR (power supply rejection ratio) so they can be very, very low noise even with noisy power supplies. The practical upshot of all of this is that running a balanced system can be advantageous, but just because of the amp section. Pairing balanced headphones with a balanced amp is usually a good idea if the amp has a balanced output stage, because you get the full output power (a good thing).

Mind you, all of this is purely theoretical, and a well designed single ended amp can be, and often is, better than a badly-designed or even mediocre balanced amp.

To add to this: The original purpose of balanced audio was in studio environments with very long runs of cable that could pick up interference and noise. Balanced amps offer high CMRR (common mode noise rejection), a phenenom well illustrated by the image below:

The noise in the input signal is in the same phase in both input signals, so it is cancelled out.

All of this is cool, but if the amp doesn't take advantage of these benefits, there's no point in buying a balanced amp. The Jotunheim is an amazing balanced amp that can drive anything (except maybe a HE-6 or K1000), and it's balanced. The Vali 2 is also an amazing amp that can drive lots of different headphones, and it's a hybrid, so you get the "tube sound." The Jot has more power, and it measures better, if that matters to you.

 

[James Pena]

To quote myself on the topic of balanced:

To add to this: The original purpose of balanced audio was in studio environments with very long runs of cable that could pick up interference and noise. Balanced amps offer high CMRR (common mode noise rejection), a phenenom well illustrated by the image below:

The noise in the input signal is in the same phase in both input signals, so it is cancelled out.

All of this is cool, but if the amp doesn't take advantage of these benefits, there's no point in buying a balanced amp. The Jotunheim is an amazing balanced amp that can drive anything (except maybe a HE-6 or K1000), and it's balanced. The Vali 2 is also an amazing amp that can drive lots of different headphones, and it's a hybrid, so you get the "tube sound." The Jot has more power, and it measures better, if that matters to you.

Thank you for your detailed and insightful explanation on balanced audio and DIY amps. I've read and compared the specs of both amps on schiit's website. On paper, the specs of the jot looks more impressive compared to the Vali 2. It's also balanced, and a DAC. For these reasons, my mind is set on buying the jot. However, I do want to try out that "tube sound" that everybody loves. Also, the Vali 2 is more affordable. On December 2017, I will go to an audio store with my 6XX and try out both amps. Then, I will make my final decision. Lastly, after careful consideration, I don't want to build a DIY amp and DAC. Despite the simplicity and affordability of building an amp and DAC, I still don't want to do it. I have this feeling of low self-confidence deep within me, that if I try it, than I will mess everything up. I am most certainly NOT a professional by any means. I just have one more question. If the tubes on a tube amp or hybrid break or become damaged, is it easily replaceable and affordable?

 

[100VoltTube]

The tubes Schiit uses in their hybrids are the 6BZ7; part of the 6922 family. Schiit sell replacements for $10 a tube, but if you get into tube rolling, the price of the tube you use can increase. Replacing them is as easy as pulling while wiggling them a little.
I recommend getting to listen to both.

 

[James Pena]

The tubes Schiit uses in their hybrids are the 6BZ7; part of the 6922 family. Schiit sell replacements for $10 a tube, but if you get into tube rolling, the price of the tube you use can increase. Replacing them is as easy as pulling while wiggling them a little.
I recommend getting to listen to both.

Oh what a relief! When I first started this blog, I thought two things.

1. Tubes are very fragile.
2. Tubes are irreplaceble and if one or all of them break, then you have to buy another amp.

Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. My considerations for getting a tube or hybrid amp have now increased because of you and everyone else who replied to this thread. I still want to get the jotunheim more than any other amp, but I'll decide that in December. I have another question. Recently, I watched a youtube video about tube amps. Some guy in the video said that different tubes or tube families produce different sounds. He didn't explain that though. Care to elaborate on that? If this statement is false, then what's the purpose of having different tube families?

 

[100VoltTube]

I don't have a ton of personal experience with tube amps. I have a DIY OTL amp, but it currently hums too much to do any meaningful comparisons between different tubes. The common belief is that tubes made by different manufacturers, or in different eras (but are the same type of tube, 6922/E88CC/6DJ8 in your case) sound different, presumably due to differences in the construction of the tube. Tubes that are different electrically different (from a different "family") obviously sound different, and may or may not be compatible with your amp. For more information on this, there are lots of threads devoted to the discussion of tube rolling. One thing I have learned: sometimes you can find tubes that are electrically identical (or close enough) to common tubes, but have a different base. These tubes do require an adapter, but they are often spectacular deals. An example is the 6SN7, a common dual triode with an octal base. It is equivalent to the 7N7, which has a loctal base, and costs about $10 for an NOS tube made in the US in either the 40's or 50's, compared to $40 for a 6SN7 from the same era.
Some tubes also have cheaper equivalents with a different heater voltage. For the 6922, this is the 8416. These would require a weird adapter, but considering you're getting an Amperex made NOS tube that would normally set you back $200, $17.95+adapter cost isn't that bad.

 

[Danielbea122]

Im new to massdrop so im trying to understand how it works.

So if i order the 6xx they wont ship until December?

 

[mmf1]

Im new to massdrop so im trying to understand how it works.

So if i order the 6xx they wont ship until December?

Yes. The HD6XX is made to order and will take awhile before Massdrop gets the shipment.

 

[Danielbea122]

Yes. The HD6XX is made to order and will take awhile before Massdrop gets the shipment.

Thx that sux

 

[ahmadfaizadnan]

Thx that sux

The waiting time is kinda sucks

 

[buke9]

Oh what a relief! When I first started this blog, I thought two things.

1. Tubes are very fragile.
2. Tubes are irreplaceble and if one or all of them break, then you have to buy another amp.

Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. My considerations of getting a tube or hybrid amp have now increased because of you and everyone else who replied to this thread. I still want to get the jotunheim more than any other amp, but I'll decide that in December. I have another question. Recently, I watched a youtube video about tube amps. Some guy in the video said that different tubes or tube families produce different sounds. He didn't explain that though. Care to elaborate on that? If this statement is false, then what's the purpose of having different tube families?

One thing you said earlier is you wanted balanced inputs I think you mean balanced outputs. The 650's are not that hard to drive even at 300 ohms so I don't think balanced is a must as they play at a decent level straight from my iPhone 6S Plus. I have not heard the Jot yet it has been at a couple of meets and CanJam but I wasn't in the market for it so I didn't listen to it. Going to a meet in a couple of weeks and maybe one will show up there who knows.
The thing about different family of tubes as they were made for many different applications not just audio . Builders build a amp circuit for a certain type of tube also there is not just one type but many.