Questions about learning to drive a stick

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by craiglester /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really think the US needs a two tier examination like in the UK. you pass a test in an auto, that's all you're allowed to drive. Gotta take another test for manual.

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't take long to get used to a manual. 15-20 minutes of driving around and you're fairly used to it. After a few days of driving it becomes entirely second nature. I don't think requiring a license for a manual trans is necessary.

 

[Samgotit]

Meloncoly, your head looks like an egg.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't take long to get used to a manual. 15-20 minutes of driving around and you're fairly used to it. After a few days of driving it becomes entirely second nature. I don't think requiring a license for a manual trans is necessary.

maybe I am just untalented..but I still think about my gear transition from time to time....not second nature at all...more so at higher RPM with 6 gears.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif maybe I am just untalented..but I still think about my gear transition from time to time....not second nature at all...more so at higher RPM with 6 gears.

What kind of car do you have?

Driving at high rpm with a 6 speed performance car isn't the goal of your basic drivers license course.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I heel-toe through every curve out of habit

In Novi? I lived in metro Detroit for 12 years, driving a manual during the whole period, and the traffic was so terrible that I couldn't imagine having the opportunity for these "race" maneuvers very often at all

Maybe it's possible at 3:00 A.M. whipping around one of those idiot turns on Big Beaver, but otherwise it's just a pain to drive a manual in that area since it's almost always stop-and-go traffic.

 

[Wildsurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't need to double clutch or rev match with a modern transmission

Would you care explaining what is double clutching please ? I'm a bit lost in translation here...
Rev matching has always been a bit controversial, you were supposed to do that if you wanted an optimal gear shift, but that's typically a professionnal driver's thing, even 40 years ago people drove cars for decades without even knowing what rev matching was. Nowadays, except for a few crazy people who still think it's useful, only rallye pilots tend to use this technique.
But that's something interesting to learn, and you feel very proud when you finally manage to change gears without pressing the clutch pedal

As for heel and toe, it requires a lot of practice and is totally useless on the road. My driving "style" is way more agressive when I use heel and toe, that's not something you want on an open road, you always think you are in control until something happens. It's hard to refrain I know...

 

[AudioPhewl]

Driving a manual is easy. There is no need for double-declutching on a semi-modern car - I've never driven a car without syncromesh, and have never needed to re-engage the gearbox in neutral before selecting the next gear.

Rev matching - never heard of it, but I expect it's what I presume. Yes and no - one soon picks up the skill of getting lightly on the throttle a fraction of a second before engaging the clutch. It makes for a smoother ride for those in the car, but isn't essential. I'd say most manual drivers in the UK pick up that habit subconsciously.

It takes a different mindset to successfully drive a manual car. For the first few weeks you'll find you're having to do everything by thought, but it shouldn't take long for it to become second nature. Thinking about your speed, the gear you're in, the road ahead and what gear you're expecting you'll need, successfully using the clutch in different situations - hill starts, sitting at lights, moving smoothly in very slow traffic(the real measure of talent is to be able to move at varying speeds between 2-6mph, whilst watching the road ahead, and not having to give it any thought whatsoever.

It's all worth it though. Fuel economy can be noticeably better, performance is generally noticeably improved(though modern cars are far better than those of 15-25 years ago), and the entire experience is far more involving and 'personal'.

Downsides - leg-ache in stop-start traffic, cost of maintenance(clutch replacement is a big job, but quite rare, depending on usage).

~Phewl.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

Don't fret about all these "techniques". In most cases they are for professional driving, and enthusiasts. For everyday driving. Shift up as quickly as possible and cruise in the highest gear possible without dropping too low in RPM. Shift down a few gears and go back to neutral, or heck go straight to neutral and wade around, pundits will come rushing in to tell you "thats not how you do it!" but it works, its easy and it doesnt do any harm.

 

[Wildsurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rev matching - never heard of it, but I expect it's what I presume. Yes and no - one soon picks up the skill of getting lightly on the throttle a fraction of a second before engaging the clutch.

Oh I didn't see it that way...
For me rev matching is when downshifting from third to second, for example, you rev up in order to make the engine revs match the gearbox output revs in 2nd gear, and you make your shift by driving the stick with dexterity. Of course when you're upshifting it's the opposite, you rev down.
Nowadays it's only a confirmed pilot technique to shift gears faster, but you've got to train real hard in order to do it efficiently. Modern cars -and more particularly city cars- aren't good cars for that because all the pedals are not hard enough to provide the sensations you need to rev match.

 

[vagarach]

I've been learning manual in a mazda rx8, which has a hard, long throw clutch, and it takes some care to shift smoothly! Driving a manual impreza was like night and day, very soft clutch, nice and precise box, very easy to drive really. I imagine most other regular cars to be just as easy to drive, so really, just give it a shot. Starting out, the goal is to shift smoothly, and not have the car roll back on an incline. That's it.

 

[Meloncoly]

Thanks for the really good information. It's making me feel more comfortable approaching a MT car. It was always a bit intimidating to me since I don't want to mess up a friend's car or just break something from inexperience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meloncoly, your head looks like an egg.

I know... =[ To make it worse, I have small ears too, but big lips. I'm out of proportion, fix me please lol.

 

[Samgotit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloncoly /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know... =[ To make it worse, I have small ears too, but big lips. I'm out of proportion, fix me please lol.

No, no, no. You don't need fixin'. That's a good looking head you have there - A study in ovate perfection. I think you're a pretty good looking character (In a platonic sense).

Oh yea, driving a manual is instinctive. There's nothing to actually "learn" if you just want to drive. You really need to find a friend with a MT. The best way to learn is to simply jump in the drivers seat.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif In Novi? I lived in metro Detroit for 12 years, driving a manual during the whole period, and the traffic was so terrible that I couldn't imagine having the opportunity for these "race" maneuvers very often at all Maybe it's possible at 3:00 A.M. whipping around one of those idiot turns on Big Beaver, but otherwise it's just a pain to drive a manual in that area since it's almost always stop-and-go traffic.

What is with MI and Big Beaver!? People who hardly know where MI is on the map know Big Beaver....

I "whip" around most corners with heel-toe...actually I use hell-toe for semi-quick stopping as well....

I find using heel-toe is safer than going through corner in neutral

am I the only one who find "smooth shifting" requires a little more than "instinct"?

 

[digger945]

... so what would be the best way to go about learning how to drive a manual?
Thanks for the answers![/QUOTE]

if you can find someone with a MT car, get them to let you go through the drive-thru at McDonalds.
(I'm just kidding, I'm a kidder.)
I learned on my grand-dad's Jeep Jeepster, in an open field, alone.
I think you can/will do better alone, other people will only confuse you.
Alone you can focus on the clutch, not what the other person is saying all the time.

Keep us informed as to the status of your progression/accident history, will you.

 

[Wildsurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloncoly /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the really good information. It's making me feel more comfortable approaching a MT car. It was always a bit intimidating to me since I don't want to mess up a friend's car or just break something from inexperience.

I may not have an objective point of view because in France we learn how to drive with MT cars, but I've always found smooth shifting instinctive once you have a little experience. It's just about sensations, with time you learn to use them a bit better.

There's really no worries to have about driving MT cars. Unless you stall every 30 seconds you can't damage anything, and while learning you won't be driving that fast (quite slowly in fact

) and thus won't be a danger to others, so give it a shot

I agree with digger945, the first time have somebody with you to explain you how to do, but after try to be alone, there's nothing better than trying to find the good technique, to feel the sensations yourself.