[nc8000]

I have lately in different forums had discussions with people concerning if newer iPods actually have a line-out signal at all. They claim that after 5,5 the signal from the headphone out and the dock connector are identical if the volume is set to max and that they therefore do not have a line signal and that saying so is just marketing deceed from Apple and all the sellers of lod's. They are amongst other things using this diagram as proof.
 
Anybody KNOW anything about this ?
 
Also does there even exist a generally accepted definition as to what a line signal is ?

 

[Bennyboy71]

I wouldnt put anything past crApple.  They jumped the shark years ago.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Subscribed.....I'm also curious about this.

 

[moodyrn]

I don't know about the new classic, but that is not the case with my iphone 4. The sound out of the headphone out(connected to an amp) is a distorted with max volume. The line out clearly sounds better and much cleaner. I assume this would be the same with the touch as well. Also there is hiss using the headphone out, but none with the line out.

 

[nc8000]

That is also my experience with my 7th gen Classic and iPhone 3Gs and why I'm asking this question since my ears tells me that there is a difference (well I believe I can hear a difference).
 
And as I remember Ken at ALO wrote when the 6th gen Classic came out and he no longer could iMod it that the line-out was better than the stock line-out of the 5.5 but still not as good as an iMod.

 

[shigzeo]

Pretty easy to test, but people prefer to gaff at it instead with spec sheets and 'listening' that prove nothing. Few people realise that the differences they hear between various devices often come down to brand, etc. If you want proof, use a good enough sound card and connect the line out via dock to it and measure test suites like RMAA or ART. Do the same with the HPO. That's it. If they are the same, they will measure exactly the same at the same volume levels. That, or the whole line out VS HPO thing is a joke anyway, as HPO have become good enough to not be able to distinguish from the line out. 
 
The HPO and line out are run in conjunction with one another, too, with little to no adverse effect on the HPO. Plug into the HPO and plug into the line out to see. 
 
As for calling Apple Crapple, they are one of the last if not the last mass market company to even give a damn enough to allow things like: line out, digital out (through third party stuff), gapless playback, excellent ID3tag support. The list goes on and on, but against them I cannot raise the SQ or 'don't care about music' card as that is complete tosh.
 
Hate them if you want, but do it for real reasons and then support it with backup.

 

[shigzeo]

My point is well illustrated, then. None of that has any relation to audio at all. None relates to line outs, headphone outs, or anything. Mind you, I rag on about Samsung all the time, so touche. If you really want to get going on someone, we could get hot and bothered about a company that actually owns the governments of several nations, is directly responsible for the deaths of dozens of researchers, whose monopolistic practices outweigh country law, and who suppresses competition by any means necessary.
 
Yes, I'm talking about Samsung, the salt company that just so happens to make apartments, high rise hotels, cars, DVD's, and recently, electronics. 
 
But, that would derail this thread that is about the line out and HPO of the iPod/iPhone. If no one will do it, I'll provide measurement data of the two across one or two software suites. You can pick on about that if you want.

 

[elfary]

Quote:

Pretty easy to test, but people prefer to gaff at it instead with spec sheets and 'listening' that prove nothing. Few people realise that the differences they hear between various devices often come down to brand, etc. If you want proof, use a good enough sound card and connect the line out via dock to it and measure test suites like RMAA or ART. Do the same with the HPO. That's it. If they are the same, they will measure exactly the same at the same volume levels. That, or the whole line out VS HPO thing is a joke anyway, as HPO have become good enough to not be able to distinguish from the line out. 
 
The HPO and line out are run in conjunction with one another, too, with little to no adverse effect on the HPO. Plug into the HPO and plug into the line out to see. 
 
As for calling Apple Crapple, they are one of the last if not the last mass market company to even give a damn enough to allow things like: line out, digital out (through third party stuff), gapless playback, excellent ID3tag support. The list goes on and on, but against them I cannot raise the SQ or 'don't care about music' card as that is complete tosh.
 
Hate them if you want, but do it for real reasons and then support it with backup.

Amen to that. Apple players are the most versatile ones imo (Not to mention the convenience of its speaker  and digital docks aftermarke, tech service everywhere and so on .

 

[maik]

Samsung's Galaxy S phone line has some of the best sound I'v ever heard from a portable source

 

[nc8000]

Please try to stay on subject as it is a question I would like to know the answer to. Not interested in pro or contra Apple sentiments.
 
shigzeo , thank you for your offer, that would be great.

 

[Somnambulist]

Got to mention, although there's only two products I can think of that achieve it (and are a bit on the bulky and not-yet-released side), that with iPods, iPhones and iPads you'll be able to get a true digital-out w/DAC (or DAC + amp) that's portable-ish.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

I know, I'm almost tempted to get an iPad to use my uDAC with...  If only they took MicroSD or SD cards.  But that'd "ruin" their look.  :-/

 

[Somnambulist]

I was thinking of the AlgoRhythm Solo. That + the newest iPod Touches which are insanely thin, plus a thin amp like the Arrow = pretty damn portable. Pretty damn expensive too, best get saving.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

At that price and size (plus the required external amp), why not get a HiFiMAN to avoid the extra bulk?  I have no doubt it is good, however.
 
I guess it's primary target is home use.  In that case, I suppose it makes sense as it enables you to be able to use your iPod/Pad/Phone as a top notch primary source.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

At that price and size (plus the required external amp), why not get a HiFiMAN to avoid the extra bulk?  I have no doubt it is good, however.
 
I guess it's primary target is home use.  In that case, I suppose it makes sense as it enables you to be able to use your iPod/Pad/Phone as a top notch primary source.

The HifiMan players are bulky on their own, and they don't do gapless.