Question About Matching Tubes
Sep 25, 2008 at 2:08 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

vcoheda

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i ordered a pair of matched tubes from a "reputable" online vendor. one of the tubes was bad. i asked for a replacement. i said in my email that i needed a matched pair. when they responded, they asked if they could send a replacement for the bad tube. i found that odd. maybe i am off here, but to match the current/draw of tubes don't you *need* to test both tubes at the same time. how could you send one tube, as it would not be matched to anything. another instance is where i ordered a matched pair of tubes from an ebay vendor. all the seller does is sell tubes, so it seems that he is in the business. same thing. one tube was bad. i made it very clear in my email that i needed a matched pair. the seller asked if he could just send a replacement for the bad tube. what?

either matching tubes is total BS, or i am missing something here.

someone please explain to me how you could match 2 tubes if one of the tubes you are trying to match to is not in your possession.

thanks
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 3:31 AM Post #2 of 14
I think many of these "Vendors" are playing pretty loose with what they consider "matched" to mean.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 3:45 AM Post #3 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif
someone please explain to me how you could match 2 tubes if one of the tubes you are trying to match to is not in your possession...


Well if they sold the original pair to you I suppose they could have recorded the matched plate current in their orders database, and then ship you a single replacement with a plate current that is also a close match.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 3:57 AM Post #4 of 14
yeah they could have groups of tubes already matched and ready to go for people requesting sets of 4 or 2 or whatever. I would still ask them about this though.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 4:16 AM Post #5 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well if they sold the original pair to you I suppose they could have recorded the matched plate current in their orders database, and then ship you a single replacement with a plate current that is also a close match.


i doubt these places keep those kinds of records.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 5:06 AM Post #6 of 14
Why? If these people are truly 'in the business' as you said I'm sure they must have recorded the values.

I am just playing devils advocate.
devil_face.gif
These places kinda scare me as well, seeing as some of them are kind of sketchy.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM Post #7 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i ordered a pair of matched tubes from a "reputable" online vendor. one of the tubes was bad. i asked for a replacement. i said in my email that i needed a matched pair. when they responded, they asked if they could send a replacement for the bad tube. i found that odd. maybe i am off here, but to match the current/draw of tubes don't you *need* to test both tubes at the same time. how could you send one tube, as it would not be matched to anything. another instance is where i ordered a matched pair of tubes from an ebay vendor. all the seller does is sell tubes, so it seems that he is in the business. same thing. one tube was bad. i made it very clear in my email that i needed a matched pair. the seller asked if he could just send a replacement for the bad tube. what?

either matching tubes is total BS, or i am missing something here.

someone please explain to me how you could match 2 tubes if one of the tubes you are trying to match to is not in your possession.

thanks



Great question v..

It happens all the time. They should have asked you to send both back then match the good one, unless they keep records. That's why I purchased a tester. I had so many tubes that were bad it was ridiculous. When you buy several tubes at the same time, it's pretty difficult to test them all on your gear to see if any are bad, especially with the 7 day warranty.

On another note with the matched date codes. I guess some dealers think just because they have the same date that's all that matters. Not true...You may have one tube that is very strong and one very weak, borderline minimum.

On the other hand, you may have two of the same, strong tubes with different codes and they work great.

I have pairs of matched codes and unmatched codes, as long as they are strong they all work great.

Of course all this is IMHO and situations I have encountered.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 2:21 PM Post #8 of 14
If the tubes were matched, then they would have been tested before shipping and he would not have recieved a bad tube from them (unless they knowingly shipped him a bad tube). Additionally, matched tubes should have paperwork indicating the accuracy of the match, or the tubes measured performance.
 
Sep 25, 2008 at 5:21 PM Post #10 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by Budgie /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If the tubes were matched, then they would have been tested before shipping and he would not have recieved a bad tube from them (unless they knowingly shipped him a bad tube).


that's a good point.

unless the tube was damaged during shipment - and in both cases the tubes were well packed and there was no damage to the box - the testing should have detected the bad tube, which leads me to believe that they are not testing these tubes in the manner that they should be - i.e., matching current and draw - and maybe not even testing the tubes period!

it seems like buying tubes is a somewhat risky proposition. you may get what you paid for, but you may not.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM Post #11 of 14
I am wondering, so some say that matching is good others say it doesn't matter. I just got a Little Dot MKIVse and we have a place up in Sun Valley that has RCA 6AK5W's for $5, he said he will test them to make sure they are good but won't match them. What do you say, think they are ok to put in my new amp? Is there a definitive answer to the question, "to match or not to match"?
 
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:12 AM Post #13 of 14
Depends on what you're matching...matched pairs, or matched sections. From the Tube FAQ:
3.6 Matched sections vs matched tubes

While purchasing tubes, you may come across the terms ‘matched sections’ and ‘matched pairs’. The meaning and implications of these two terms are covered in detail below.

Matched sections

There can sometimes be more than one active amplification element within a single tube. For example, there are triodes and then there are twin triodes - the 6J5 being an example of the former and the 6SN7 being an example of the latter. In other words, the 6J5 is virtually electrically identical to half a 6SN7.

With multiple sections (triodes, tetrodes, pentodes, etc) within a single tube comes the problem of variation. As a result of material and construction variation, there may be slight mismatches between the two sections of a twin triode like the 6SN7. Or the two sections of a twin beam tetrode like the 6DY7. Or the two sections of a twin pentode like the 6MK8.

Using a suitably equipped GM tester, the 2 sections within a tube can be tested and have their amplification ability measured. As a perfect match between 2 sections is exceedingly rare, a 5% match is the usual ‘gold’ standard with 10% and 15% being lesser grades of matching. This is the meaning of having a tube with ‘matched sections’.

Remember – knowing that a tube has ‘matched sections’ is useless without knowing how close percentage-wise they are matched! One retailer’s ‘matched’ may be 5% while another’s may be 10%!

Matched tubes

Matched tubes take the concept of matching a step further.

With matched tubes, all the sections in all the tubes to be matched must fall within a certain percentage of each other. For example, if we want to have a matched pair of twin triodes, it would mean that we would need to match 4 sections from 2 tubes. If we want a matched quartet of twin triodes, it would mean that we have to match 8 sections from 4 tubes.

Confused? Here’s an example to help you sort things out:

• Imagine we have 3 twin-triode tubes: A, B and C.
• Tube A has GM results 98/95, tube B = 96/97 and tube C = 62/60
• ALL 3 tubes have sections matched to 5%. Hence all 3, when sold individually, can be advertised as having matched sections.
• But ONLY tubes A and B can be sold as a matched pair as all their sections match to within 5%.

As you can see, matching tubes can be a challenge - which is why vendors typically charge you a (sometimes hefty) premium for matched tubes. This premium increases sharply with the number of tubes that need to be matched. Ouch!

But wait - why do we even need matched tubes for amplifier use?

In general, only power tubes need to be matched. Rarely will you come across an amp that requires its preamp tubes be matched. Many amplifiers are designed to require power tubes that have similar cathode currents. Even tubes of the same type made at the same time will have variations in their cathode current, and this is why testing and matching is required.

While few amplifiers actually need matched tubes, it never hurts to have them. Please consult your manufacturer to determine whether your amp needs matched tubes.
 

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