[Nomad]

Just listening now to the Qualias at very low volume while working on a document.

They might well be the best can in the world if you are playing a very low volumes. The only can close at those volume levels (and better in some aspects) would be the SR-Omega but the weak bass at very (very) low volumes kills it for this application in most albums. L3000 is another good one but it is quite dark at low volumes.

It is a sad thing that the Qualia line was closed. The engineers were up to something here. Not quite perfect but it was a quite promising starting point.

 

[Trogdor]

I too agree they sound awesome at low volumes. However, you really need an amp that can drive these hungry beasts. I find these cans are not synergistic with a lot of amps out there.

 

[applebook]

The Qualia is very sensitive, so I've found that it doesn't even need to be amped at all to sound dynamic, but of course, getting the best out of it does require some spectacular amp. I used it to watch TV (unamped, of course) and was surprised by how good it sounds. No wonder a few people use it with an iPod.

 

[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Just listening now to the Qualias at very low volume while working on a document. They might well be the best can in the world if you are playing a very low volumes. The only can close at those volume levels (and better in some aspects) would be the SR-Omega but the weak bass at very (very) low volumes kills it for this application in most albums. L3000 is another good one but it is quite dark at low volumes. It is a sad thing that the Qualia line was closed. The engineers were up to something here. Not quite perfect but it was a quite promising starting point.

Which amp do you like best with your Qualia ?

 

[Sleestack]

If you look at the freq. response curve for the Qualias, much like the GS1000s, they are obviously best suited for low to moderate volume listening. One would expect them to be sibilant at higher volumes. I haven't even received mine yet, but I have no expectations of using them at higher volumes unless I EQ them with significant high end rolloff. IMO, to fairly judge any headphone, you have to factor in the fact that when it comes to sound, human perception is level dependant.

 

[jjcha]

I wouldn't know... I only listen to mine loud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack If you look at the freq. response curve for the Qualias, much like the GS1000s, they are obviously best suited for low to moderate volume listening. One would expect them to be sibilant at higher volumes.

Sibilance isn't the issue - the 010 is not nearly as sibilant as the GS1000, or even a Lambda Pro, or a dozen other cans I've owned that are prone to sibilance.

But depending on a bunch of random factors I haven't figured out (even after years of owning them), sometimes the 010 sounds like it's got this nasty treble spike that just pierces your ears, and sometimes they don't. I personally don't think it's issues of fit, burn-in or cable, though each of these can play a factor. I think honestly it has to do with more whether you're adjusted to that sound or not. If you are, then the 010 don't sound bright at all, unless the recording itself is particularly bright. But at the same time, I'm not particularly surprised when other folk, even those who are usually very sensitive to bright cans, comment that they don't find the 010 to be bright at all.

But if you aren't used to it or ready (and it takes about 2 minutes for me to get used to the sound again, if I've been cheating on it with another can), then it is undoubtedly bright. At least it can be for me.

I dunno, it's not really an issue for me I suppose. I don't mind bright cans and it only takes a few minutes for me to get used to it again and just enjoy the music.

Best,

-Jason

Postscript: Dang, even right now my normally biased Lambdas are a heck of a lot brighter than the 010... but that has more to do with system matching, as my Lambda system is utterly ghetto right now... lol, but still - how often does someone switch to the 010 because another headphone's too bright?!

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin Which amp do you like best with your Qualia ?

I think a powerful and warm SS amp might be the ticket.

Tubes warm a bit the Qualias and help with soundstage but doesn't quite drive the Qualia as its best. The highs are a bit rolled-off and the bass is not well controlled. (This with an EMP Anniv. Ed with NOS tubes, I'm sure it will be totally different with SDS-XLR balanced, but you get the picture, I'm talking about average-to-good tube amps here, not about excellent ones)

SS migth be better suited to enhance what the Qualias does best. Just make sure your amp is a bit warm in order to tame the Qualias. Both the amp on the Apogee MiniDAC and the DHA3000 are warm SS ones and the DHA3000 drives very well headphones. I think it is my favorite for the Qualias.

I should get a Singlepower one of these days, if just to try them. Why they have to be so big?

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha I wouldn't know... I only listen to mine loud.

x2 for sure!

I can definitely understand your point about the Qualia's "brightness" being quite different than what I'd describe as simblance. It's not the same kind of brightness that I find with some of the Grados, for example. As you've suggested, although the "fit", burn-in and cable factors probably come into play to some extent, it's more of a matter of getting used to the Qualia sound. This requires an adjustmnt period at first, and then eventually it starts to sound so right that everything else sounds wrong.

To a certain degree, this is the same sort of thing that some Ultrasone users have been describing of late, I guess because the S-logic thingie and the way that they angle their drivers, etc. A combination of several factors causes their line of headphones to have a distinct/unique sound signature relative to anything else in the marketplace. At first, this may seem "off" to the casual listener, and the Ultrasones certainly require an extended break in period. But eventually, at least for some people, their sound begins to seem right, perhaps even to the point that everything else seems "off".

Perhaps these are nothing more than carefully crafted excuses that folks who've invested in the Qualia or Ultrasones have come up with to justify their investments (whether they're making such 'excuses' knowingly or not). But I think there is more to it than that. It seems to me that the same thing can be said of speakers such as Martin Logans (electrostat) or Avantgarde (horn), where the listener is introduced to a totally different perspective that falls outside of any readily available reference points.

At first, people tend to react by trying to compare this totally distinct/unique sound signature to something else that they know and feel comfortable with (but which may or may not be any more "true" to the original source). By comparison to what we know and have grown comfortable with (dynamic speakers), this new sound seems "off" at first. But once the mind relaxes and is able to accept the fact that this new paradigm/presentation needs to be assessed on its own merit, the electrostat and/or horn experience can become so totally enchanting that you will never believe you could ever go back to dynamic speakers. Until, of course, you hear something else that grabs you from yet another new angle (like dynamic speakers that readiate 360 degrees, as in MBL).

And so the story goes in the so-called "high end" audio world. There is always something new to discover around the corner. Just when we think we've finally nailed down the "right" sound for whatever our tastes and preferences happen to be, then "Boom!" something else reaches out and grabs us!

Thankfully, with headphones, the entry point to some rather exotic sound possibilities is still somewhat affordable. Etymotics ER-4S for less than $200? What, are you kidding me?!?! This is an amazing bargain, and you can take that sound with you anywhere you go! Open, closed, full size, portable, IEM, and so many choices at every price point to suit whatever your sonic preferences happen to be, and no shipping crates involved.

 

[gaijin]

I feel like I am getting consistently good sound from my Qualias. I tend to wear them slightly pushed backwards from a normal listening position. In that way, I find the tonal balance is perfect, and the sound is surrounding you. In comparison, the HD650 have much less impact, and an overemphasized midrange. The Qualia are quite good in fact !

Also, I do not notice that they are better at lower volumes - on the contrary.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin I feel like I am getting consistently good sound from my Qualias. I tend to wear them slightly pushed backwards from a normal listening position. In that way, I find the tonal balance is perfect, and the sound is surrounding you. In comparison, the HD650 have much less impact, and an overemphasized midrange. The Qualia are quite good in fact ! Also, I do not notice that they are better at lower volumes - on the contrary.

Yes, they are quite good. Unfortunately they are quite dependant on the seal and the almost rigid construction of the pads make it difficult to achieve unless your jaw is Qualia-Compliant. My case is not too bad, but I could get a bit better sound, as I do when I press the cans against my ears.

Please realize I'm not saying that they sound better at lower volumes (I think no can does). All I'm saying is that at very low volumes I get from the Qualias an amount of detail and dynamics I don't get with any other can, that tend to sound muffled, veiled or simply not very engaging at those low volumes. The Qualias "sparks" even at very low volumes. They are quite good indeed.

 

[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Yes, they are quite good. Unfortunately they are quite dependant on the seal and the almost rigid construction of the pads make it difficult to achieve unless your jaw is Qualia-Compliant. My case is not too bad, but I could get a bit better sound, as I do when I press the cans against my ears. Please realize I'm not saying that they sound better at lower volumes (I think no can does). All I'm saying is that at very low volumes I get from the Qualias an amount of detail and dynamics I don't get with any other can, that tend to sound muffled, veiled or simply not very engaging at those low volumes. The Qualias "sparks" even at very low volumes. They are quite good indeed.

I have just lowered the volume to answer you, and you are right, they are just as good at low volume !

I guess I am lucky, as I have a perfect seal without pressing the pads. I suggest you shorten the headband as much as possible and move the pads back a little.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaijin I guess I am lucky, as I have a perfect seal without pressing the pads.

Oh, you have no idea how lucky you are!

Quote:

I suggest you shorten the headband as much as possible and move the pads back a little.

Thanks for the tip. It's worth a try.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Please realize I'm not saying that they sound better at lower volumes (I think no can does). All I'm saying is that at very low volumes I get from the Qualias an amount of detail and dynamics I don't get with any other can, that tend to sound muffled, veiled or simply not very engaging at those low volumes. The Qualias "sparks" even at very low volumes. They are quite good indeed.

I almost bought the GS-1000s b/c of their low volume performance. I opted for the Qualia's instead but haven't actually heard them for any extended period. I'm hoping the adjustable band on my set will help with the seal.

Why wouldn't certain headphones perform better at lower volumes than at louder volumes? Certain headphones/speakers are designed to account for the necessary boost in lower and upper frequencies required to maintain the proper balance across the frequency range at lower volumes. Alternatively, a headphone/speaker with a more bell shaped curve would be expected to operate ideally at louder volumes and sound unbalanced a lower volumes. Freq. response curves obviusly don't tell all, but I have yet to hear a speaker/headphone with a "U" shaped curve that sounds great at high volumes nor a bell shaped curve at low volumes.

The issue of level dependent perception is rarely discussed here, which IMO, is the one gaping hole in the otherwise exhaustive analysis that can be found here. While there is disagreement on how much compensation needs to be made at various levels, IMO there is not much to debate when it comes to the effects of the general principle. I have found the principles to be extremely helpful in managing my expectations and designing my systems.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack The issue of level dependent perception is rarely discussed here, which IMO, is the one gaping hole in the otherwise exhaustive analysis that can be found here. While there is disagreement on how much compensation needs to be made at various levels, IMO there is not much to debate when it comes to the effects of the general principle.

No doubt what you're saying here is VERY true, and we don't really ever talk about it at Head-Fi except when we attend a meet and have the misfortune of listening to a pair of headphones imediately after Ray Samuels has had his turn with them! If that won't cause hearing damage, I don't know what will.

But on a serious note, I suspect that the reason this is seldom discussed is that headphone listening is such an isolated experience, and thus everyone more or less takes their own particular volume preferences as a "given" and simply moves on with their descriptions of the headphones bass, treble, midrange, soundstage, etc.

I suspect (and agree with you on this point) that a lot of the "hot or cold" types of extreme reactions that people tend to have wth the Qualias (in particular) may have something to do with their 'normal' listening level. I'm a somewhat loud listener (although not anywhere near as loud as Ray), and don't think that the Qualias are really intended for rockers! This may well explain, at least in part, my rather wishy washy feelings toward them. That, and the constant struggle with the fit/seal. Hope yours fits you like a glove. That will make a huge difference in your perceptions.

 

[gaijin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad I think a powerful and warm SS amp might be the ticket. Tubes warm a bit the Qualias and help with soundstage but doesn't quite drive the Qualia as its best. The highs are a bit rolled-off and the bass is not well controlled. (This with an EMP Anniv. Ed with NOS tubes, I'm sure it will be totally different with SDS-XLR balanced, but you get the picture, I'm talking about average-to-good tube amps here, not about excellent ones) SS migth be better suited to enhance what the Qualias does best. Just make sure your amp is a bit warm in order to tame the Qualias. Both the amp on the Apogee MiniDAC and the DHA3000 are warm SS ones and the DHA3000 drives very well headphones. I think it is my favorite for the Qualias. I should get a Singlepower one of these days, if just to try them. Why they have to be so big?

Thanks for the amp recommendations. I have ordered a RSA Raptor, as it had very postive reviews when used with Qualia 010s as well as with the Resolution Audio Opus 21 player which I own. I will definitely post impressions (in a couple weeks). I currently have the rudistor NX-33, which I like a lot but I feel is not quite to the level of either the Qualias or my source. We shall see.

The DHA3000 looks sweet, but the price is steep.