[DaemonSire]

Hi All,
I’ve been lurking on head-fi for many years, but have only started posting recently and looking to acquire some new decent equipment.  I have done extensive reading throughout the forums and the web for a good AMP and DAC to pair with the Q701.  I realize this has been asked before, but most of those threads were never really resolved or were asking using different criteria.  I’ll try to be thorough with what I have and what I would like to accomplish and hopefully you all can steer me in the right direction.  Hopefully this will start a good conversation and provide useful information for someone else down the line too.
 
I’m looking for a good desktop AMP and DAC that will pair well with the Q701.  I also have the HD25-1 II, Monoprice 8323 (couldn’t resist for $20 J), Grado SR80 (which I may be selling…) and RE0.  Also, the PA2V2 for cheap, portable amping.
 
I will be using the Q701 for music and games mostly (and movies a bit too probably).  The HD25-1 II will fill the gaps in the Q701 when I want to listen to faster or more bass intense music (metal).
 
The HD25-1 II and the Q701 will be my main use for the DAC/AMP and will be run primarily from my computer.  Currently a laptop (which will be used at my desk), but will likely be building a gaming desktop rig later (much later…next year at least…so not anytime soon).
 
So portability is not an issue or a concern for me.  I’m looking to spend around $200-400 for the setup, but would like the ability to possibly upgrade further down the road as funds permit (thinking modular set up).
 
So from my research, I’ve come up with these combos for now:
 
DAC/AMP Combo:   Audio-GD NFB-12.1  (~$250 after shipping from China)

1. I’ve read a lot of positive reviews about this DAC/AMP combo.  And supposedly the DAC is of good quality, so if I wanted to upgrade the AMP portion down the road, the DAC would still be up to par
2. I like the ability to plug in additional SPDIF inputs as well so I have the flexibility of using other devices other than just a computer.  Not really a ‘requirement’ as such, but it is a plus of course.  Downside is there is no analog input, so I couldn’t use this set up as an AMP down the road and upgrade the DAC.  Thoughts?  Is the DAC good enough?
3. I’ve read some very negative comments too from NwAvGuy’s blog regarding the NFB-12.  I know there is some history there with Head-Fi, but he also seems to know what he is talking about.  Thoughts on that too?  I’m on the fence as it gets great reviews but also ripped on too.

 
DAC/AMP Combo:  ODA/ODAC   ($?)

1. I know the ODA isn’t out yet, but the O2 has been reviewed well.  Not sure what else to say about this…I know there is no release date set either for the ODA, so if it will be many months away, then I’ll pass.
2. Not really looking for the O2 either as I’d like to the have 6.35mm jack and again, don’t need a portable setup.

 
DAC: HRT Music Streamer II  (~$160)  and AMP: Matrix M-Stage (~260)

1. This combo seems highly regarded too.  It is considerably more than the NFB12 (almost double) and doesn’t accept any input other than USB (again, not a deal-breaker).
2. Is this set up worth the extra money over the NFB12?  If so, then I will opt for it, but if the difference is negligible, then I may not.

 
When I mentioned above about upgrading the AMP for the NFB12, I was considering the Matrix M-Stage later on.  How does the DAC in the NFB12 compare to the HRT MS2?  Would the NFB12 > Matrix M-Stage > Q701/HD25 be a good fit too?
Any other suggestions in my price range?  Or combinations that I can start with and add on later?  I like the idea of separate DAC/AMP so it can be modular and upgrade/sell as needed.  On the other hand, I like the decent NFB12 set up that gives me flexibility to use that as is now, add a better AMP later, then upgrade the DAC after that to match the AMP.  And then still have the NFB12 for a second cheap setup (bedside?).  Also, curious about the "Starving Student" tube amp...I'd attempt building one later (next year probably) just for the fun of it.
 
Also, RE: Gaming.  I’ve read that the Astro Mixamp and DSS are the main two options for Dolby Headphone surround for gaming.  But I also understand that as an amp/dac, they aren’t great and DH really drops the sound quality for anything other than gaming.  So my question is, is DH really worth it?  I mean, if the Q701 has a decent soundstage to begin with, how necessary would DH be?  I’m not a competitive gamer, but do enjoy an immersive experience and not getting destroyed too J
 
Unfortunately where I am at (Canada), there isn’t really an option to go and demo any of this hardware.  And selling/buying from the For Sale/Trade forum is hit or miss as people seem to not like us Canucks (CONUS…L).
 
Thanks all for the time…sorry if I rambled on.  I look forward to your suggestions!

 

[olegausany]

I never heard any of the units on your list except O2 and while it sounds OK Ithink there are better choices for your money. Also since you looking for M-Stage why not to get M-Stage amp with usb dac in one they have for just little bit more?

 

[DaemonSire]

I read that the DAC in the M-Stage isn't very good compared to others in this range.  Have you heard the M-Stage DAC?  I'm open to suggestions if there are better 'bang for your buck' setups.  I know that once you get to a certain price point (a little higher than here essentially), that the more you spend will get you better quality, but not for the same price to performance ratio (law of diminishing returns).
 
The Schiit Asgard is also interesting.

 

[olegausany]

Quote:

I read that the DAC in the M-Stage isn't very good compared to others in this range.  Have you heard the M-Stage DAC?  I'm open to suggestions if there are better 'bang for your buck' setups.  I know that once you get to a certain price point (a little higher than here essentially), that the more you spend will get you better quality, but not for the same price to performance ratio (law of diminishing returns).
 
The Schiit Asgard is also interesting.

No I haven't heard that combo but was interested in it and found Amazon seller but when I contacted him about return police I got no reply so no longer interested in it. Right now I'm using smallest great sounding  USB DAC/AMP combo AudioQuest DragonFly which I prefer over E17, Audioengine D1 and Arcam rPac. But since I have Asus Xonar STX which has good DAC I finally pulled the trigger and got from for sale forum Asgard cause neither Schiit nor AudioAdvisor have one in stock

 

[DaemonSire]

I think I might end up going with the HRT Music Streamer II + Matrix M-Stage

 

[DaemonSire]

Has anyone been hit with any Custom charges ordering from Tam Audio?  That seems to be the only place I can find that sells the Matrix M-Stage.
 
Specially, either Custom/Duties into Canada (or possibly US too?).  Just wondering if I need to think about factoring that into my pricing.
 
And from what I've read, that seems to be safe ordering from there as well (i.e. no fakes/knock offs?).
 
Thanks

 

[Misios]

Cheers for the thread DaemonSire! I'm currently in the same position as you -  i'm currently looking for a desktop amp/dac for the Q701. The Audio GD NFB 12.1 was mentioned by Bowei in another thread, and he seemed pleased with it. Another good thing about the NFB 12.1 is that it is easily manageable for untechnical people such as myself, it's merely plug and play!

 

[DaemonSire]

Quote:

Cheers for the thread DaemonSire! I'm currently in the same position as you -  i'm currently looking for a desktop amp/dac for the Q701. The Audio GD NFB 12.1 was mentioned by Bowei in another thread, and he seemed pleased with it. Another good thing about the NFB 12.1 is that it is easily manageable for untechnical people such as myself, it's merely plug and play!

 
Let's hope some other people chime in too so we can get some help!
 
I saw those posts by Bowei as well, and a few others have mentioned the good pairing of the Q701 with the NFB 12.1.  It seems to be a solid device, but I've read a few negative things mentioned on NwAgGuy's blog too about it (design and user impressions).
 
Ultimately, I think the HRT Music Streamer II + Matrix M-Stage is a technically "better" solution...but not sure if it justifies the increased cost.  Plus, you lose the additional inputs that the NFB 12.1 provides.
 
So if you are only using it with the computer, I'd say HRT + M-Stage...if you need optical/coax, NFB 12.1.  From what I can tell, the DAC in the HRT is better than the NFB, and the AMP in the M-Stage is better than the NFB...but as mentioned, it costs considerably more too...and is 2 separate boxes as opposed to 1 (not as easy to tear down and move around if you wanted a semi-portable solution).
 
Unfortunately, haven't not heard either one of them, I can't really say for certain and was hoping for more feedback from people that have one or the other (or both!).
 
Thanks

 

[Misios]

One thing I am wondering about is if the DAC in the Fiio E17 good enough for the Q701's?
 
Which would mean use E17 as DAC and Matrix M-Stage as AMP? Does that even work? (I have zero experience about combining dac/amp together, i've only used the E17 so far)
 
- Misios

 

[olegausany]

I tried to contact Tam Audio to ask about their return policy in case I don't like M-Stage USB sound but never got a reply so ended up getting barely used Asgard to see if I can use it as AMP and my Asus Xonar STX as DAC and if they can beat excellently sounding AudioQuest DragonFly