Purpose/cause of wavy part at high frequencies in FR graph
Jan 26, 2012 at 2:47 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 27

Tilpo

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Posts
11,125
Likes
369
I always wondered what the high frequency part of an FR graph of a headphones is all about. Almost always it seems to be wavy after 2-5kHz.
What is the purpose of this? Does it has something to do with the resonances of the ear? If so, is it the pinna, the canal or the middle ear that does this?

Or is it something to do with resonance in the driver it self, or physical limitations of the driver?

Also: what should I look for in this part of the spectrum. What are the characteristics of a good treble response?

 
Jan 26, 2012 at 4:21 AM Post #2 of 27
Okay, I've been trying to reply to this for the better part of an hour, but my computer with its faulty mobo has bluescreened three times in that period...
 
Basically, there's the human equal-loudness curve/contour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
 

 
You can see the ear canal's resonance (an average value) at 3-4 kHz (which some headphones compensate for), and similarly the null in response of the ear at 8-10 kHz which many headphones also compensate for with a peak.
 
And then there's diffuse field vs. free field equalization:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/19259/what-is-diffuse-field-equalization
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 6:03 AM Post #3 of 27
Thanks. I figured it could have something to do with the equal loudness contours.

Makes me wonder something else though:
How is equalization done?

Do they add electrical filters somewhere in the back of the driver, or do they somehow suppress/boost frequencies in another way? (e.g. absorption and resonance)
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 9:55 AM Post #4 of 27
Basically it has not much to do with equal loudness contours. The measurements are done at the eardrum and by the time the sound reaches your eardrum the frequency response looks a lot different due to reflections, resonances etc. What you see there is the influence of the HRTF - actually the HRTF of the dummy head the measurements were made with.
With your head, shoulders, ears etc. the response can look quite different. The boost at ~3 kHz is due to the bowl-shaped part of the pinna and of course the length and shape of your ear canal also plays an important role (resonances!).
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 11:42 AM Post #5 of 27
Quote:
How is equalization done?
Do they add electrical filters somewhere in the back of the driver, or do they somehow suppress/boost frequencies in another way? (e.g. absorption and resonance)

 
No, usually it's a mix of driver design, adding a "baffle" (see HD5xx, HD6xx ..), ear-cup shape, choice of materials, ear-pads, meshes, and things like the "reflector" in the HD555 and so on..
 
Of course this kind of mechanical equalization has its limits.
 
 
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 11:47 AM Post #6 of 27
 
No, usually it's a mix of driver design, adding a "baffle" (see HD5xx, HD6xx ..), ear-cup shape, choice of materials, ear-pads, meshes, and things like the "reflector" in the HD555 and so on..
 
Of course this kind of mechanical equalization is limited.
 
 

Interesting. Makes it seem a very tough job to make flat sounding headphones.
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 12:40 PM Post #7 of 27
Yes, but I think it's even harder to make headphones sound about the same for everyone. Sennheiser did a good job at this by adding some sort of "waveguide" to their higher end headphones which reduces the influence of a) the shape of the listeners pinna, b) shape of the ear canal (entry) and c) position of the headphones on the frequency response and therefore improves sound quality for everyone.
I guess that's also a reason why many don't like Grados, which are basically pipes with drivers on one and ear pads on the other end. :p
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 2:21 PM Post #8 of 27


Quote:
Basically it has not much to do with equal loudness contours. The measurements are done at the eardrum and by the time the sound reaches your eardrum the frequency response looks a lot different due to reflections, resonances etc. What you see there is the influence of the HRTF - actually the HRTF of the dummy head the measurements were made with.
With your head, shoulders, ears etc. the response can look quite different. The boost at ~3 kHz is due to the bowl-shaped part of the pinna and of course the length and shape of your ear canal also plays an important role (resonances!).



Not according to Dr. Christoph Reuter regarding the ~3 kHz peak...
 
 
Quote:
From a mechanical perspective the outer ear canal works like a tube, which is open at the one end (pinna) and closed at the other end (eardrum). Tubes like this can also be found in musical instruments like organs (the so-called "gedackt" register) and clarinets. One of the main characteristics of these tubes is that their transmission is especially strong at 1/4 wavelength. If you think about the speed of sound (340 m/s) and the length of our ear canal (about 27 mm), then you can calculate the ear canal resonance frequency with the equation f = c/lamba (frequency = speed of sound / wavelength): x = 340m/s / 0,027 m *4 = 3148 Hz as resonance peak.

 
http://pedagogic-verses.blogspot.com/2012/01/ear-canal-resonance-follow-up.html
 
 
As far as the HRTF - the equal loudness curve is the frequency domain part of the HRTF for a frontal source reasonably far away (albeit inversed).  It does disregard the phase transformation obviously.  But headphones can't compensate for phase transformations anyway, so they're effectively the same (or nearly so) in the critical midrange and low treble ranges.
 
See a HRTF for a frontal source here - notice the resemblance?
http://books.google.com/books?id=_tcPcPTwNQoC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=ear+canal+resonance&source=bl&ots=c2Kp7nXczb&sig=w6Ou81FVA7ZOyrXpx3Ti62iAYLo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XJchT93HGKP_sQKe4riaCQ&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ear%20canal%20resonance&f=false
 
I suppose the one thing the equal loudness curve accounts for but the HRTF doesn't is the inner ear frequency response - primarily the low frequency and high frequency rolloff of our hearing.
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 3:00 PM Post #9 of 27
Quote:
Not according to Dr. Christoph Reuter regarding the ~3 kHz peak...

 
Why? That's just what I wrote: "and of course the length and shape of your ear canal [...] (resonances!)"
 
 
Quote:
As far as the HRTF - the equal loudness curve is the frequency domain part of the HRTF for a frontal source reasonably far away (albeit inversed).
[,..]
See a HRTF for a frontal source here - notice the resemblance?
[,..]
I suppose the one thing the equal loudness curve accounts for but the HRTF doesn't is the inner ear frequency response - primarily the low frequency and high frequency rolloff of our hearing.

 
No. No I don't notice the resemblance. Loudness is psychological. Sure there are similarities but the way somebody feels about how loud a pure tone is has nothing to do with dummy head measurements per se.
 
That's also why I keep telling those who try to EQ their headphones by equal loudness contours that that doesn't make sense.

 
 
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 6:54 PM Post #10 of 27


Quote:
 
Why? That's just what I wrote: "and of course the length and shape of your ear canal [...] (resonances!)"
 
 
 
No. No I don't notice the resemblance. Loudness is psychological. Sure there are similarities but the way somebody feels about how loud a pure tone is has nothing to do with dummy head measurements per se.
 
That's also why I keep telling those who try to EQ their headphones by equal loudness contours that that doesn't make sense.

 
 



And you stated the primary cause of the resonance as the bowl shape of the pinnae, and your wording left the effect of your ear canal ambiguous (What role?  What resonances?  You don't specifically say the 3 kHz resonance.): "The boost at ~3 kHz is due to the bowl-shaped part of the pinna and of course the length and shape of your ear canal also plays an important role (resonances!)."
 
No similarities, eh?  I matched the scales, although without knowing what level the HRTF was done at I can't match to the exact ELC.  They're not from the same source or even the same quarter century, so I don't know the relative accuracy.  Obviously the relative sensitivity of our middle ear, inner ear, or brain (you state explicitly that it is psychological only, but I know of no evidence to that - I'd be interested in seeing it) varies with loudness, but the ELC as a derivative of the HRTF is clear.  Actually, I did of course forget about the changing ELC with level - so the ELC is really the HRTF plus the inner ear transfer function (which varies by frequency rolling off in the extremes) and the level transfer function (whether it is our middle ear, inner ear, or brain isn't really relative, all that is relative is that it's not an integral part of the outer ear and thus does not vary from near source to far source or by angle of incidence).
 

 
So in the end I suppose you are really correct, however, because it's really the difference in HRTF from real life versus headphones that we want - not the frequency extreme rolloffs (beyond those in the HRTF) or the varying relative perception of frequencies at different overall levels.  If you did mimic the total transfer function, you'd be doubling up on the transfer function of the middle/inner ear and brain.  Problem is that it's not really easy to find your own HRTF without taking a mold of your own head, body, and all objects around you...
 
Now, if you can completely map the HRTF from all angles and distances, you can take any source and perform the relevant frequency response and phase change operations to map that source to mimic any other to a certain degree (less so for simulating headphones with loudspeakers, for example, when you have lots of reflections to deal with).  But the opposite works very well - it's exactly what the Smyth Realiser does.  Well, it only maps a single setup at a time, but it's the same principle.
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 8:22 PM Post #11 of 27
This has nothing to do with the equal loudness curves at all. It is impossible to get a perfectly flat response from headphones do to the physical properties of the materials used in the drivers, etc.
 
There will always be some sort of compensation when designing headphones, so it's best to judge headphones by the way they actually sound, not the way the frequency response looks on paper.
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 9:09 PM Post #12 of 27


Quote:
This has nothing to do with the equal loudness curves at all. It is impossible to get a perfectly flat response from headphones do to the physical properties of the materials used in the drivers, etc.
 
There will always be some sort of compensation when designing headphones, so it's best to judge headphones by the way they actually sound, not the way the frequency response looks on paper.



Sorry, but you can't prove that it's impossible.  It's already been done for loudspeakers (anechoic anyway) and microphones, if you want to stay within +/- 1 dB or so.  Perhaps it can't be done for headphones yet, but it doesn't matter because you don't want a flat response anyway - you definitely need to compensate for the difference in HRTF between speakers (or other real-life far away sounds) and headphones.  Without doing so, you fail to reproduce reality as accurate as possible - i.e. not "high fidelity".
 
Frequency responses on paper definitely are a very good indicator of subjectively perceived sound signature and are vital in interpreting objective (blind) listening tests.  To dismiss them is a very bad mistake.
 
 
 
 
Aside from that, this is an interesting paper:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ast/24/5/311/_pdf
 
Jan 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM Post #13 of 27
I would say that DF or FF EQ have nothing to do with isosonic curves, the similarity of the curves is just a coincidence, especially since you would have to take into account the 60 and 80 dB curves instead of the "threshold" one.
 
Jan 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM Post #14 of 27


Quote:
Sorry, but you can't prove that it's impossible.  It's already been done for loudspeakers (anechoic anyway) and microphones, if you want to stay within +/- 1 dB or so.  Perhaps it can't be done for headphones yet, but it doesn't matter because you don't want a flat response anyway - you definitely need to compensate for the difference in HRTF between speakers (or other real-life far away sounds) and headphones.  Without doing so, you fail to reproduce reality as accurate as possible - i.e. not "high fidelity".
 
Frequency responses on paper definitely are a very good indicator of subjectively perceived sound signature and are vital in interpreting objective (blind) listening tests.  To dismiss them is a very bad mistake.
 
 
 
 
Aside from that, this is an interesting paper:
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ast/24/5/311/_pdf


They can come pretty close to being flat, but not perfect. I really don't think affordable headphones will be able to achieve for at least a number of years any ways. But you are right about needing/wanting a flat response for speakers vs. headphones. 
 
Then again, a lot of people aren't aware that graphs are often manipulated to make the response look better. You can do some pretty neat things when changing a logarithmic scale 
wink.gif

 
 
Jan 27, 2012 at 1:39 PM Post #15 of 27

 
Quote:
They can come pretty close to being flat, but not perfect. I really don't think affordable headphones will be able to achieve for at least a number of years any ways. But you are right about needing/wanting a flat response for speakers vs. headphones. 
 
Then again, a lot of people aren't aware that graphs are often manipulated to make the response look better. You can do some pretty neat things when changing a logarithmic scale 
wink.gif

 


No, not perfect.  But close enough.  Especially for microphones, where +/- 0.1 dB across the whole audible spectrum (and a bit beyond) is not unusual.
 
Well, it's not really the logarithmic scale itself but smoothing...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top