[Tubewin]

Ok, wait did more research and it would like this is not the power supply output voltage I would need (I believe I need 5v) not this 12v. Darn.

Yep, you need a 5v lps for the cards. I use a fidelizer nikola 2 for the jcat usb and the optimo 3 duo for the jcat network card. The Optimo 3 Duo adds low end heft to my system at the cost of a little bit of transparency and highs. If I didn't have a optimo 3 duo, I think I would have been happy with two Nikola 2's powering both cards. The Nikola sounds more balanced top to bottom and the timber/tone is very natural. It doesn't have the low end of the optimo 3 duo, if that is what you're seeking.

"But not all my cables are quite there yet, I'm sorta in that stage described pages back where I'm thinking to myself things like "Well, I think I can have 3 Ultimates in my chain, but maybe I need to balance out with one Classic to pull the highs back." I believe this is because there is one cable left that hasn't loosened up properly. So this week I'll game on it and report back."

I've been through this exact dilema. In the end, I always prefer the ultimate cable after proper burn in. I've bought a classic+ because of that similar experience. Now the classic plus is collecting dust and the ultimate is the one plugged in.

"What I've experienced with some of the cables at this point is this "bottom drops out" feeling where the haze goes away, the flat is replaced by 3d and the highs and the lows meet for a very clear of all frequency presentation that is very easy to listen to (which is a quality that I admire greatly)."
"The ones that seem to work well are what I would describe as "Transparent". Not in an analytical way. But almost in a completely no downside way. Like they just lift the viel and allow you to hear your system more clearly."

Well said. This is exactly what I hear as well.

 

[iCoy]

Yep, you need a 5v lps for the cards. I use a fidelizer nikola 2 for the jcat usb and the optimo 3 duo for the jcat network card. The Optimo 3 Duo adds low end heft to my system at the cost of a little bit of transparency and highs. If I didn't have a optimo 3 duo, I think I would have been happy with two Nikola 2's powering both cards. The Nikola sounds more balanced top the bottom and the timber/tone is very natural. It doesn't have the low end of the optimo 3 duo, if that is what you're seeking.

"But not all my cables are quite there yet, I'm sorta in that stage described pages back where I'm thinking to myself things like "Well, I think I can have 3 Ultimates in my chain, but maybe I need to balance out with one Classic to pull the highs back." I believe this is because there is one cable left that hasn't loosened up properly. So this week I'll game on it and report back."

I've been through the exact dilema. In the end, I always prefer the ultimate cable after proper burn in. I've bought a classic+ because of that similar experience. Now the classic plus is collecting dust and the ultimate is the one plugged in.

"What I've experienced with some of the cables at this point is this "bottom drops out" feeling where the haze goes away, the flat is replaced by 3d and the highs and the lows meet for a very clear of all frequency presentation that is very easy to listen to (which is a quality that I admire greatly)."
"The ones that seem to work well are what I would describe as "Transparent". Not in an analytical way. But almost in a completely no downside way. Like they just lift the viel and allow you to hear your system more clearly."

Well said. This is exactly what I hear as well.

I appreciate your input. From my understanding of your setup, you have the dream I'm building towards for the same goal, so I appreciate all the advice and perspective.

I don't currently have 2 PSMs, I don't have a net XE card (does this help with things like YT videos? I'm a bit confused on the purpose of this if we aren't streaming from another room, although people swear by it), I don't have any LPS (other than the Nano) but I see your vision. Your setup must sound wonderful. I hope you truly love it.

At the moment, I don't know if I need the extra low end. I think it would like it a lot. My speakers are a bit on the higher register (VLR CTs), and my USB cable is a bit on the whispy ethereal end too (Final Touch Audio Calisto). I love that but without enough low end you don't get that physicality that brings the realism together. My headphones help show me that (ZMF Atrium) which have more low end inherently.

Any and all advice or words describing what you value in your gear is appreciated.

I'll link you something I've been loving with the Ultimate Cables as they start to bring effortless clarity:


So many tracks on this are wonderful (and this video has amazing backdrops that change too so it's far superior to all other OSTs on YT for Ori) but if you want one that is a joy with a super clear and agile system it's this one:

 

[Tubewin]

I appreciate your input. From my understanding of your setup, you have the dream I'm building towards for the same goal, so I appreciate all the advice and perspective.

I don't currently have 2 PSMs, I don't have a net XE card (does this help with things like YT videos? I'm a bit confused on the purpose of this if we aren't streaming from another room, although people swear by it), I don't have any LPS (other than the Nano) but I see your vision. Your setup must sound wonderful. I hope you truly love it.

At the moment, I don't know if I need the extra low end. I think it would like it a lot. My speakers are a bit on the higher register (VLR CTs), and my USB cable is a bit on the whispy ethereal end too (Final Touch Audio Calisto). I love that but without enough low end you don't get that physicality that brings the realism together. My headphones help show me that (ZMF Atrium) which have more low end inherently.

Any and all advice or words describing what you value in your gear is appreciated.

I'll link you something I've been loving with the Ultimate Cables as they start to bring effortless clarity:


So many tracks on this are wonderful (and this video has amazing backdrops that change too so it's far superior to all other OSTs on YT for Ori) but if you want one that is a joy with a super clear and agile system it's this one:

I love the vocals and the emotional swelling of the music that you posted. Definitely genre's I would and do listen to.

You don't necessarily need two psm156's. I just find that my system benefits from two psm156's because I can separate my desktop computer from the other components. There is a somewhat noticeable hum or dc noise on both my amplifier and dac when I have everything connected to one psm156. But it gets drastically reduced when I have my desktop separated.

The jcat net card xe helps with streaming from my desktop. Either youtube or qobuz through audirvana. I started to believe that the network chain was important the moment I started lps rolling on the network card. The sound changed when I used the uptone js-2 to the fidelizer nikola 2 to the ferrum hypsos to the optimo 3 duo. They all imparted a characteristic to the sound through the network card. The balance I stuck with was the natural tone of the fidelizer and the added low end of the optimo 3 duo. If you listen to music through a streaming service like qobuz from your computer, I think trying a network card could help lift it a little bit more.
I really do like my headphone setup, but it's the speaker setup that can convince me that someone is in the room. Fortunately the amp I use, the 23r, is both a headphone amp and a speaker amp.

The speakers I use are also on the treble'y side, Omega Compact Alnico Monitors, but my network chain which includes a LHY SW-10 and a LHY FMC, gave those speakers the density/realism it sorely needed. Those speakers in my chain, whether it's youtube videos or qobuz, sound exceedingly natural. But I do have to mention that prior to adding the LHY components, even with the jcat network card, the speakers did sound a little thin and slightly extended in the treble area.

As for my taste, I've owned Focal Stellia, Focal Utopia, Focal Clear MG, ZMF VC, Hifiman Sus, and a few hd600 type of headphones which I use for gaming and movie watching(This may be a hot take, but I prefer the 650's over the 600's). Out of all of the Focal's, I preferred the Utopia's by a mile. I didn't like the hifiman susvara at first listen, because I thought it was more two dimensional sounding than the Utopia. The Utopia felt more layered. But the Susvara grew on me, and I appreciated the sub bass and realistic timbre and tone of the Susvara more than the Utopia. I would be hard pressed to call one definitively better than the other. But in the end I decided to keep the Susvara and sell my Utopia.

What I value in my gear would probably be how natural it could make the music sound. If it's making me think my music is coming from electronic boxes(even though it is), something isn't right. The system needs to do the whole frequency range justice. Sparkly high's, emotive mids, rumbling lows, I want it all.

If you have any questions about my chain or a question in general, feel free to ask away.

 

[iCoy]

I love the vocals and the emotional swelling of the music that you posted. Definitely genre's I would and do listen to.

You don't necessarily need two psm156's. I just find that my system benefits from two psm156's because I can separate my desktop computer from the other components. There is a somewhat noticeable hum or dc noise on both my amplifier and dac when I have everything connected to one psm156. But it gets drastically reduced when I have my desktop separated.

The jcat net card xe helps with streaming from my desktop. Either youtube or qobuz through audirvana. I started to believe that the network chain was important the moment I started lps rolling on the network card. The sound changed when I used the uptone js-2 to the fidelizer nikola 2 to the ferrum hypsos to the optimo 3 duo. They all imparted a characteristic to the sound through the network card. The balance I stuck with was the natural tone of the fidelizer and the added low end of the optimo 3 duo. If you listen to music through a streaming service like qobuz from your computer, I think trying a network card could help lift it a little bit more.
I really do like my headphone setup, but it's the speaker setup that can convince me that someone is in the room. Fortunately the amp I use, the 23r, is both a headphone amp and a speaker amp.

The speakers I use are also on the treble'y side, Omega Compact Alnico Monitors, but my network chain which includes a LHY SW-10 and a LHY FMC, gave those speakers the density/realism it sorely needed. Those speakers in my chain, whether it's youtube videos or qobuz, sound exceedingly natural. But I do have to mention that prior to adding the LHY components, even with the jcat network card, the speakers did sound a little thin and slightly extended in the treble area.

As for my taste, I've owned Focal Stellia, Focal Utopia, Focal Clear MG, ZMF VC, Hifiman Sus, and a few hd600 type of headphones which I use for gaming and movie watching(This may be a hot take, but I prefer the 650's over the 600's). Out of all of the Focal's, I preferred the Utopia's by a mile. I didn't like the hifiman susvara at first listen, because I thought it was more two dimensional sounding than the Utopia. The Utopia felt more layered. But the Susvara grew on me, and I appreciated the sub bass and realistic timbre and tone of the Susvara more than the Utopia. I would be hard pressed to call one definitively better than the other. But in the end I decided to keep the Susvara and sell my Utopia.

What I value in my gear would probably be how natural it could make the music sound. If it's making me think my music is coming from electronic boxes(even though it is), something isn't right. The system needs to do the whole frequency range justice. Sparkly high's, emotive mids, rumbling lows, I want it all.

If you have any questions about my chain or a question in general, feel free to ask away.

Nothing wrong with loving the 650's over the 600's. That is my preference as well. The 650's to me do a fantastic job at veiling the right parts of lower-end computer/electronics noise and have a wonderful and dark more "Cello" than "Violin" timbre which is something to die for. I've essentially been searching for a headphone on the higher end that does similar. The Atriums Open (with the auteur pads) have done the best so far for me.

Thank you so much for this description. I don't know the right questions to ask just yet, as things are still settling for me, but I imagine soon I'll try to formulate questions around where to go next. While you may have great answers/advice, I still need to sit down and trust my own ears as to what I "need" next. As in, do I need more low end? Do I need more __? I haven't got that clarity yet so my questions aren't going to be as well pointed.

Even in the last day (I played Halo last night on what I believed to be the least burned in Ultimate cable), the highs have become less sharp (which is greatly appreciated)

Can I ask a question regarding this? When people talk about getting rid of the "digital etchedness" and the transparency of these ultimate cables, would you ever consider them to be "soft". Soft being too far in the other direction from sharp. I ask this because what my gut is telling me is that my system needs some sort of solidity to add to the mix. I don't think it's the power cable (although I will test with some AQ power cables that helped slightly in that regard last time, soon), the solidity might need to come from an LPS or even a USB cable. I'm just asking because I know what you speak of when you say "gave those speakers the density/realism it sorely needed" I believe this is what I'm hunting. I've heard it before, where you almost gasp hearing something you believe momentarily to be real. Like listening to an ambient track on YT and you think the rain was outside sorta thing. My brain just can't accept dropping 2-3k on network stuff, but maybe that is where I need to be going? Listen I've had to expand what my brain can't except only 10 times before in this hobby, so what's 11?

So again, forgive me for not quite formulating my questions yet, but thank you again for all the advice. Computer sound has given me near infinite joy and I will admit, while expensive and incredibly time-consuming, every step towards entrancing magic is a worthwhile one.

For what it's worth (I find it incredibly hard to advise on chains because there is so much I haven't heard) my chain is:

Gaming PC with USB XE JCAT Card and Master Clock Upgrade JCAT powered by JCAT Nano
Moon 430 HAD Headphone AMP and DAC -> Atrium
Moon 330 Speaker Amp -> VLR CTS
PSM 156 -> Ultimate Cables (powering everything)

 

[Tubewin]

"Can I ask a question regarding this? When people talk about getting rid of the "digital etchedness" and the transparency of these ultimate cables, would you ever consider them to be "soft". Soft being too far in the other direction from sharp. I ask this because what my gut is telling me is that my system needs some sort of solidity to add to the mix. I don't think it's the power cable (although I will test with some AQ power cables that helped slightly in that regard last time, soon), the solidity might need to come from an LPS or even a USB cable. I'm just asking because I know what you speak of when you say "gave those speakers the density/realism it sorely needed" I believe this is what I'm hunting. I've heard it before, where you almost gasp hearing something you believe momentarily to be real. Like listening to an ambient track on YT and you think the rain was outside sorta thing. My brain just can't accept dropping 2-3k on network stuff, but maybe that is where I need to be going? Listen I've had to expand what my brain can't except only 10 times before in this hobby, so what's 11?"

By soft sounding, do you mean it doesn't define leading edge of notes well enough or it's thin sounding? Every time I went up in power distribution, the less digital it sounded. As far as the lhy is concerned, the only downside is that they do not do money returns. If you can't discern an improvement, you would have to sell it on the used market. I would start small, and try a $20 network switch and see if it changes anything. If it does, well... it's a rabbit hole.

 

[nighthink]

I'm seriously considering PSM156, but without a chance to test it before, it's not an easy choice. I read all the good reports from this very encouraging forum post. On the other hand, for example I read Audio science review about this unit and that gave me some hard times to make the final choice.

I have an audible hum from my power amplifier and it even resonates a bit when playing, but nothing to concern when I listen to music, just when the speakers are silent. I also hear a hum from the speakers, still the same regardless of the volume. Do you think PSM156 can solve this? I have read in this forum that those types of issues are probably not solvable by a conditioner like this. But the product specification of PSM156 claims the opposite.

So I'm just wondering if there is maybe anybody for whom the difference was not worth it even after trying in the concrete setup. I can't really judge how bad or good my electricity in the house is. I'm just very intrigued by PSM156 as it looks like it does a lot of good to many people. Thanks.

 

[anyoldears]

I'm seriously considering PSM156, but without a chance to test it before, it's not an easy choice. I read all the good reports from this very encouraging forum post. On the other hand, for example I read Audio science review about this unit and that gave me some hard times to make the final choice.

I have an audible hum from my power amplifier and it even resonates a bit when playing, but nothing to concern when I listen to music, just when the speakers are silent. I also hear a hum from the speakers, still the same regardless of the volume. Do you think PSM156 can solve this? I have read in this forum that those types of issues are probably not solvable by a conditioner like this. But the product specification of PSM156 claims the opposite.

So I'm just wondering if there is maybe anybody for whom the difference was not worth it even after trying in the concrete setup. I can't really judge how bad or good my electricity in the house is. I'm just very intrigued by PSM156 as it looks like it does a lot of good to many people. Thanks.

Anyone who takes ASR seriously isnt worth talking to IMHO. As if a) you spend your evening watching an oscilloscope and b) that what they measure is directly correlated to SQ. Neither is true. Ignore them.

Which do you really believe? A guy showing you an oscilloscope measurement, or all the people saying its makes a great positive difference?

Most dealers will do it on a 30 trial. Or get a demo unit.

 

[nighthink]

Sure that makes sense. I was wondering if this is a cure in every setup (as almost every household has a mix of various devices coming into play and interacting with the electricity network), or if there are some concrete cases where it objectively has no effects.

But I have no specific knowledge in this regard, so such contradicting opinions (obviously from some educated people) are misleading.
I'd be happy to get rid of that hum from both amplifier and speakers and get better sound along the way. It looks like a general improvement across the whole chain. I will need to find out myself. The demo is not possible on my side, I have no dealer around, need to just buy it.

 

[Jake2]

Sure that makes sense. I was wondering if this is a cure in every setup (as almost every household has a mix of various devices coming into play and interacting with the electricity network), or if there are some concrete cases where it objectively has no effects.

But I have no specific knowledge in this regard, so such contradicting opinions (obviously from some educated people) are misleading.
I'd be happy to get rid of that hum from both amplifier and speakers and get better sound along the way. It looks like a general improvement across the whole chain. I will need to find out myself. The demo is not possible on my side, I have no dealer around, need to just buy it.

The PSM 156 immediately stopped dead the low level hum through my speakers from my LFD Integrated Zero LE amp. It also significantly reduced (say by 80%), but didn't totally eliminate the toroidal transformer hum/buzz (from chassis not via speakers) from my R26 DAC. On top of the sonic improvements.

 

[LucianoBadoe]

The PSM156 make sense for somebody that's seek "just" for the sonic improvements?
I don't have hum in my system. Not even in the R26 toroidal transformers but I know abouth the improvements that eletrical quality can do for a system and it's put the 156 in my with list.

 

[Jake2]

The PSM156 make sense for somebody that's seek "just" for the sonic improvements?
I don't have hum in my system. Not even in the R26 toroidal transformers but I know abouth the improvements that eletrical quality can do for a system and it's put the 156 in my with list.

The promised sonic improvements were why I got it, addressing my system's hum issues was a bonus. My initial impressions from a year ago reflect this:

Some super preliminary but positive observations FWIW after only having had everything plugged in and playing for 3 hours:

• My system has never sounded this good, it has brought a new level of refinement to the midrange and treble in particular. Words like calm, sweet and velvety came to mind as I was first listening.
• I can listen louder more comfortably, longer
• Some problematic tracks previously where there was some umconfortable stridency in the upper midrange with my Focals (Florence in King when she hits her stride) are much more listenable
• A fairly loud toroidal tranformer buzz in my R26 DAC (alas not uncommon amongst R26 owners, somethings gotta give with a $1.5k overachiever) I've had since I got it has reduced by 95% - you have to almost put your ear to the case now to hear it - win!
• A long standing if innocuous hum via the speakers from my 20 year old but still classy LFD Integrated Zero LE amp has gone completely
• Tracks seem to start from more of a black background
• Dynamics and transients seem very good even though it's very early days, some nice bass slam already, increased attack on strings, but I feel with time they and soundstaging are going to free up/open up even further.

I have virtually everything in my speaker system hooked up to it: Mac Mini, both switches, R26, OCK-1 clock & LFD amp. I'm not going to bother unplugging or ABing anything to isolate what's improved most etc until it's run in for at least a week.

so far.

 

[phoneslave86]

I've seen PSM get rid hums and buzzes for sure. It's good at that especially PSM1512 or PSM156. It's also an amazing upgrade to the sound. Imaging/separation is better no doubt. I already had a PSM136, Audio Envy OKTA, 2 dedicated lines ect. ect. I added a PSM1512, I had 8 pieces of equipment that were not in a PSM. The imaging went to freaky level. I was not expecting that. Glad I bought it for sure.

 

[nighthink]

I ordered mine (just with classic for a starter) as a one way ticket without easy return. Hopefully it will also solve the hum from amplifiers. Recently I moved my rack close to the wall and the hum is now more audible, resonating from the wall behind I guess.

Of course even more I’m curious about the impact on the sound. I just hope it won’t make my system brighter. This is what I found reported on more places.. That would not be good.. But more often I saw this didn’t happen, so lets hope for the best

Btw the PSM156 is quite long on the market now without any change/upgrade. That can also suggest it’s good as nobody found anything to improve.

 

[phoneslave86]

I ordered mine (just with classic for a starter) as a one way ticket without easy return. Hopefully it will also solve the hum from amplifiers. Recently I moved my rack close to the wall and the hum is now more audible, resonating from the wall behind I guess.

Of course even more I’m curious about the impact on the sound. I just hope it won’t make my system brighter. This is what I found reported on more places.. That would not be good.. But more often I saw this didn’t happen, so lets hope for the best

Btw the PSM156 is quite long on the market now without any change/upgrade. That can also suggest it’s good as nobody found anything to improve.

My tube amp has a mild buzz on the 20A dedicated line. Zero buzz in the PSM

If you have multiple Amps/DACs ect. you will probably want to separate some stuff to get rid of hums. PSM can get rid of hums to an extent only.

I use 3 DACs and 2 AMPs for over 3 months now. I have 2 sets of RCA to my tube amp and 1 set of XLR to my digital amp. My PSM136 cannot stop the hum there by itself so I used power blocks and GND defenders for my DACs until I got it better sorted out.

When I got my PSM1512 as a quick experiment I put the amps/DACs side by side to test how good it is at dealing with hum. It hummed at zero volume. Then I put 2 dacs in the top/back, one in the bottom/back and the 2 amps by the power cable. Zero hum at max volume. So one can see the PSM does want to work out hums but also might hum. It was good to see this happen but I still put my DACs and streamer into a different PSM and separated them.

 

[iCoy]

By soft sounding, do you mean it doesn't define leading edge of notes well enough or it's thin sounding? Every time I went up in power distribution, the less digital it sounded. As far as the lhy is concerned, the only downside is that they do not do money returns. If you can't discern an improvement, you would have to sell it on the used market. I would start small, and try a $20 network switch and see if it changes anything. If it does, well... it's a rabbit hole.

I'm trying to truly understand what I'm hearing. It almost sounds like it's on the spectrum of Closed to Open. It feels like there is a focused but small to less focused and large. I think I'm grappling with the sound of things being open/large sounding which can make the overall blend of sounds (as opposed to the individual sounds) harder to grasp fully at once. But soft seems like the wrong word. Don't quote me on it, I think I, more than anything, need to settle with my system. I feel like things are in the final stages of evening out and I'm needing to respect that still.

That being said, what I feel now is that thing you described with your speakers. I'm most certainly considering pursuing more low end / solidity. I'm very curious to try a LPS. I'm not sure if that is where I need to be getting my low end heft (could be a different USB cable) or could be.. not sure yet.