Project Ember Tube Rolling

[Makiah S]

   

Glad you like them, you are just beginning a very satisfying journey.  I know it is hard with a lot of tubes, but take your time and enjoy them, they all bring something different to the table. It is amazing the sound that you can get from the ember with the dual triodes. So many tubes, so little time.  And you are right on the money with Alison, on some of her recordings, I have to look around and see if she is not in the room, with me.  Boy, would that bring on a coranary attack!  Nice way to go!

ugh one of these days... I'ma go broke
 
good news though my VokShod came in... bad news is I don't really feel like opening the package tbh... I'd kinda rather get the $45 I paid for it back q.q
 
but for the sake of "reviewing" I'll go for it
 
who knows maybe it'll suprise me 
 
and it in fact did surprise! Right off the bat in Miles Davis So What... I'm getting the sense that the bass has better grip with the VokShod [switching over to metallica, this song starts off pretty hard core] 
 
Hmmmm, so yea the Vokshod has more clarity than the GE 6sn7 GTA, everything sounds... faster a little more DYNAMIC, so that said, I started to compare it right to the NFB10ES2, and I found that the bass is better on the Starlight with the VokShod! There's a bit more texture to the double bass due to touch of umph the tube adds! [Nice surprise there!!!!] 
 
How ever the gain on each of the tubes is different... the Vokshod at the same levels is louder, yes I did perform SPL meter match throughout my testing, and what I found was overall the GE 6SN7 GTA was a little softer, mids and bass a little creamier than the VokShod, in terms of sound stage the VokShod was also better than the ECC81 Telefunken 
 
The fully balanced Amp does reach a little farther back in the sound stage 
 
still looks like this $45 was money well spent!! 
 
better news, is I grabbed @Bill-Ps ES10 a few days back, and he's informed me that he tuned it using a tube so looks like I'll have another wood back to pair with my Starlight ^^ 

 

[Makiah S]

So now the question to ask, is what Octals sound like the Vokshod Rocket, 1975  Single Wire Grey Sheild? 

 

[Tunkejazz]

The Telefunken e88cc reminds me of the 6n23p SW, but a bit smoother. My problem with these tubes is that they are getting very expensive, but I quite like how they sound.

 

[joespride]

  @joespride that's awesome! Can you please share a photo of those tubes in the Ember, if possible? Also would you mind to also explain the sound, such as soundstage, hi/mid/lows, detail, etc.? And any comparisons to other fav. tubes is nice too.
 
Oh also @Mshenay we would also enjoy photos once you get to try your ECC31

When I get around to figuring out the photo feature here I will take the time to add a few pics
 
Sound wise I  am cycling through several tubes right now I bought a big stash from Connieflyer along with 2 adapters .
 
Initial impressions are the 6j5 reminds me of 45 & 2A3 type SET amps, They have superb mids very musical with some added warmth,  The 6l5 is is more along the lines of the 300b warmer with perhaps a bit of recessed mids but just so lush its like a warm blanket in winter
 
The 7193 is more refined more technically correct also seems to have more gain, they are a definite step up from all the single tubes I have heard to date, I find myself drawn more to the 6j5 simply because I LOVE set amps and the warmth they offer
 
I wont comment on sound stage because for me headphones are lacking in this department no matter which cans, including the current king of imaging the hd800 (I recently sold)
 
I have a lot more listening to do as is always the case above are my impressions and YMMV 

 

[nwavesailor]

  When I get around to figuring out the photo feature here I will take the time to add a few pics
 
Sound wise I  am cycling through several tubes right now I bought a big stash from Connieflyer along with 2 adapters .
 
Initial impressions are the 6j5 reminds me of 45 & 2A3 type SET amps, They have superb mids very musical with some added warmth,  The 6l5 is is more along the lines of the 300b warmer with perhaps a bit of recessed mids but just so lush its like a warm blanket in winter
 
The 7193 is more refined more technically correct also seems to have more gain, they are a definite step up from all the single tubes I have heard to date, I find myself drawn more to the 6j5 simply because I LOVE set amps and the warmth they offer
 
I wont comment on sound stage because for me headphones are lacking in this department no matter which cans, including the current king of imaging the hd800 (I recently sold)
 
I have a lot more listening to do as is always the case above are my impressions and YMMV 

I don't know the 'sound' of 2A3 / 45 SET amps nor how they differ from 300B..........So do the 7193's have an advantage over the 6J5G's and 6L5 on the highs or bass depth? 
 
Are the 6J5G's just something special (musical) without the absolute best bass or treble?
 
I have 6J5's and adapter in route!

 

[Tunkejazz]

 
I don't know the 'sound' of 2A3 / 45 SET amps nor how they differ from 300B..........So do the 7193's have an advantage over the 6J5G's and 6L5 on the highs or bass depth? 

To my ears and with my headphones the 7193 (using Ken-Rads) do not extend as deep in the bass and it is certainly warmer than the Visseaux in the higher end of the frequency spectrum. Also, I felt that (comparatively) some female voices can sound congested ("nasal"?) with the 7193, which is not the case with the 6J5. I actually prefer the Bad Boys overall to the 7193, although the latter are ahead in many aspects. I think @HOWIE13 wrote a small comparison at some point at the diyah forum and maybe also here. I could find two links with some comments:
 
http://diyah.boards.net/post/15866/thread
http://diyah.boards.net/post/16756/thread
 
I think the 7193 is a very good option and relatively cheap. Soundstage is great compared to most 6SN7 alternatives.

 

[joespride]

I also find the 7193  microphonic,  

 

[nwavesailor]

  I also find the 7193  microphonic,  

Sadly, that's one of the hazards of vacuum tubes in audio.
I have some tubes that sound (to my ears) very nice that are somewhat microphonic. As long as they aren't noisy, I use them. We all think we have some stone quiet tubes, but all are microphonic to some degree..........it's the degree that matters!

 

[HOWIE13]

  To my ears and with my headphones the 7193 (using Ken-Rads) do not extend as deep in the bass and it is certainly warmer than the Visseaux in the higher end of the frequency spectrum. Also, I felt that (comparatively) some female voices can sound congested ("nasal"?) with the 7193, which is not the case with the 6J5. I actually prefer the Bad Boys overall to the 7193, although the latter are ahead in many aspects. I think @HOWIE13 wrote a small comparison at some point at the diyah forum and maybe also here. I could find two links with some comments:
 
http://diyah.boards.net/post/15866/thread
http://diyah.boards.net/post/16756/thread
 
I think the 7193 is a very good option and relatively cheap. Soundstage is great compared to most 6SN7 alternatives.

Thanks for reminding me of those threads!
Since then, further listening hasn't altered my views about these tubes. 6J5, 6L5's and 'Bad Boys' are the tubes I find I'm using most. I need all three types to cover all the music I like, at present.
Like you, I also find the 7193's can sound a bit congested and muddled in the lower mids/bass compared to 6J5's. It depends on the music, sometimes it's not a problem. 
I also don't mind about microphony as long as it's quiet when I'm actually listening. 

 

 

[sneaky415]

 
I don't know the 'sound' of 2A3 / 45 SET amps nor how they differ from 300B..........So do the 7193's have an advantage over the 6J5G's and 6L5 on the highs or bass depth? 
 
Are the 6J5G's just something special (musical) without the absolute best bass or treble?
 
I have 6J5's and adapter in route!

 
The 7193's are more bass oriented than the 6j5g's but they don't neccesarily go deeper. The 7193's makes my yamaha mt220's sound wonderful. It's a can that I found a bit on the bright side.
 
On the other hand I also have the fostex th-x00, with the 7193's they sound like crap basically. Bass is really boomy and just takes over the whole presentation. With some good 6j5g's the th-x00 sounds magical.
 
Which tube you will prefer depends a lot on your gear I think.

 

[Makiah S]

   
The 7193's are more bass oriented than the 6j5g's but they don't neccesarily go deeper. The 7193's makes my yamaha mt220's sound wonderful. It's a can that I found a bit on the bright side.
 
On the other hand I also have the fostex th-x00, with the 7193's they sound like crap basically. Bass is really boomy and just takes over the whole presentation. With some good 6j5g's the th-x00 sounds magical.
 
Which tube you will prefer depends a lot on your gear I think.

I agree, with the strong low end presentation on the TH X00 I strongly prefer Solid State, my LA D5k an apparently my ES10BP are both have better grip and faster decay in teh bass and mids, with a touch more energy in the highs, making tubes the better choice to my ears 

 

[DecentLevi]

So I've taken the Ember 2 with me to exhibit at the last 3 Head-Fi meets I've gone to, including at the last two local meets that I organized. The Ember has gotten a fair amount of positive words before with Franken Ember and 6SN7 tubes, and I still heard nothing negative. Then yesterday was the first 'public appearance' of the Visseux 6J5 setup. I don't use the amp section anymore, but as a tube-buffer to my Liquid Carbon (balanced headphone out) -or- to my Koss electrostatic amp. Several members asked what makes my rig sound so good, and I told them it's because of the Visseaux 6J5 tubes - the best I've tried after at least two dozen varying models & classes of tubes. One such member was a senior fellow but first time to a meet, and wanted to compare the electrostat amp with and without the Ember as a tube-buffer. After comparing twice, he noted that this Ember setup added a more full bodied sound. And boy was he right - it adds a bit more of a 3rd dimension, also impact and weight.
 


 
So far the best word I've come up with to describe the Visseaux+Ember is sublime. They're the jack of all trades and do everything right, from ambient to jazz, classical, pop, electronic, rock and even movies, etc. The few times I've been tempted to roll another tube for them, the Visseaux were back in within a matter of hours. That would be interesting however, to see the progression of the Zenith 6J5's and even how they compare, as the Visseaux are getting scarce.
 
However, being somebody who has been fortunate enough to listen to virtually all of the mid-fi to summit-fi systems from Stax to Hifiman, Sennheiser, KGSS, Sony MDR-R10, Eddie Current, etc. - I have become more of an objectivist with sound systems so will stop short of saying that the Visseaux is the 'holy grail' or bigger words like magnificent - save for even better gear out there. And to be fair, the Ember only took up about 2-5% of the total conversation at most there, with all the other TOTL gear present at these meets. Suffice it to say though, this setup is a standout for it's price point.
 
Additionally, it seems there is still potential for another of the recently discussed tubes could unseat the Visseaux, especially the 6N7 variants, 6A6 (dual triode - single tube), or even other types of these 6J5 (single triode - dual tube).
 
And for anyone who's interested, full event converage can be found here.
 
PS- for anybody looking to upgrade their amp, I would recommend to keep your Ember and best tubes, so that you may be able to use it to fine-tune the sound of your new amp as a tube buffer.

 

[connieflyer]

Nice write up on the meet.  Sounds like a lot of fun. One thing you might want to do is get yourself the machined top and bottom plate for your Ember at the shows.  It would look much nicer, I did a while back and while I like the look of the plexy, the black metal withe the camphored edge really set it off.  Bidding on a quad of Sylvania JAN-CHS-6L6GA military grade smoked glass tubes, looks like I may have this one.  Have to find out if there is anything I like better than the Viss's before I let spare set go. 

 

[DecentLevi]

I'm personally not sure about the adapters / compatibility for a 6L6, but sounds interesting

 

[Makiah S]

  I'm personally not sure about the adapters / compatibility for a 6L6, but sounds interesting

yea I wish my Starlight had Line outs, but alas it doesn't :/ non the less as I move up to the Ember I'll be sure to grab a set of the Visseauxs