[Joeywhat]

To (hopefully) make things easier for you, here is the equipment you need...this is not a definitive list by any means, just what I recommend:

Live recording - M-Audio mic/pre amp bundle.

Interface - Good sound card or interface. If you get an interface, the pre amp above is not really needed. The pre amp should really only be used if going to a sound card. Interestingly enough, there is a package on guitar center for $99 that includes both mics as in the above package (990/991). Same price, but without the pre amp. The Mbox is a good interface, and Presonus gear is generally good budget stuff. I think you can make a good decision and pick out what you need. Reading up on it all will give you some experience.

Controller - M-Audio Keystation. I prefer the 61 key, although the 49 key is a lot cheaper. They're both the same except for the number of keys.

That's it for hardware (minus cables and the such). For software, you'll need:

DAW program - You have this, Fruity Loops.

Soft Synths - I'm sure Fruity Loops has at least some...look online for more. There are TONS of reviews and "best of" lists that show what the best synths are. Google is your friend. I'm particularly fond of a program called Reason. It deals only with MIDI, but it has TONS of great synths, and a good drum machine. It also features a plugin called "rewire" which allows it to be slaved to your DAW. This means it acts like it's part of FL, when in reality it's a separate program.

Sampler - If you get reason, it has a sampler. A pretty good one, at that. All a sampler is is a program (or hardware) that takes a digital audio clip, and allows it to be played back when MIDI data is received.

I think that covers everything you need for what you have described so far. I personally suggest getting a decent audio interface to start. The presonus firebox looks alright. My friend has it, and has had no complaints. That would take the place of the pre amp listed above, so all you would need are the mics.

Hope this helps.

 

[mikeliao]

Wow, excellent overview Joeywhat!

xromanticistx, maybe you want to read up on midi, digital audio, and recording like joeywhat recommended. Search "recording studio" on amazon or try the following link for some starting tips. http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

If you really want to use Protools, the M-Box2 comes with Protools LE and all you'll need in addition is a midi controller (keyboard or whatever you like) and a decent microphone.

For a cheap startup alternative, look into the podcast mic/preamp/software packages many companies are putting out. This combined with other shareware and a simple usb midi controller can have you up and running for less than $200.

 

[Tantra]

I may be repeating something said in some of the previous posts, but:

If you want to record audio (vocals, guitar etc) and MIDI (synth or MIDI-controller) you would need an audio interface and a sequencer to get going.

Pro Tools is the standard for the professional studios in the US. It's a very comprehensive sequencer, but rather expensive. And only supports audio interfaces from Digidesign or the M-powered stuff from M-Audio. The bundles with software and hardware is good.

The Logic sequencer is for Mac only, but has broad support with different audio interfaces. It's also great to work with. And the Logic Studio is a very nice software package.

Other sequencers like Cubase and Sonar etc. is availible with all platforms and most audio interfaces. They are also good, and budget friendly (if that is ever possible with audio).

If you want to go "pro", settle for Pro Tools. If you have a Mac then Logic would be your choice. I have previously worked with both Cubase and Sonar, but have never regretted the recent switch to Logic.

And you would probably prefer an audio interface with at least 2 mic/line/DI inputs with 48 v phantompower, balanced stereo line-out, and integrated MIDI port. FireWire is also better than USB (especially on a lap-top with limited numbers of USB ports).

 

[Joeywhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantra /img/forum/go_quote.gif I may be repeating something said in some of the previous posts, but: If you want to record audio (vocals, guitar etc) and MIDI (synth or MIDI-controller) you would need an audio interface and a sequencer to get going. Pro Tools is the standard for the professional studios in the US. It's a very comprehensive sequencer, but rather expensive. And only supports audio interfaces from Digidesign or the M-powered stuff from M-Audio. The bundles with software and hardware is good. The Logic sequencer is for Mac only, but has broad support with different audio interfaces. It's also great to work with. And the Logic Studio is a very nice software package. Other sequencers like Cubase and Sonar etc. is availible with all platforms and most audio interfaces. They are also good, and budget friendly (if that is ever possible with audio). If you want to go "pro", settle for Pro Tools. If you have a Mac then Logic would be your choice. I have previously worked with both Cubase and Sonar, but have never regretted the recent switch to Logic. And you would probably prefer an audio interface with at least 2 mic/line/DI inputs with 48 v phantompower, balanced stereo line-out, and integrated MIDI port. FireWire is also better than USB (especially on a lap-top with limited numbers of USB ports).

Logic Pro is a brilliant program for MIDI sequencing. I used it all through high school...the instruments it came with were really top notch. I didn't even bother with recording anything live, since the instruments were too...good.



That being said, the tab to transient feature on Pro Tools pretty much trumps everything else on every other program...I've never used such a damn useful tool on a DAW. Easily saves me hours when doing a lot of work with digital audio files and cutting them up.

 

[musicmind]

Joeywhat and Tantra, thanks for all your explanations and info here.
Obviously one of the big selling points of the M-audio interfaces is the ability to use the "M-Powered Protools LE" software.
I'm sure other programs like Cubase are more than adequate for most applications, but what is your opinion on the Protools LE software? Are there any particular tasks that it is better at?

The Presonus Firebox has great reviews. The mic preamps seem to have a little less gain than comparative devices, I dont know if your friend has experienced any difficulties.
I've been considering the M-audio FW410, if Pro Tools LE is really better or easier to use that Cubase for basic home recording. If not, I would probably go with the Presonus because I've hardly come across anyone have any driver/hardware issues with it.

Hopefully, these audio interfaces also sound good enough to be used as a DAC to feed into my headphone amp

Thanks, cheers

 

[Tantra]

Well, based on my personal experience I would not recommend Cubase. I had to do too much tweaking and bug-fixing to get it running smoothly. And when I got the recommendation on the Steinberg forum NOT to upgrade a well working version of Cubase I just had enough. I switched to Logic. And have never regretted the decision. I have very hard to believe that Pro Tools LE is as bugged as my Cubase SX 2.2 was. If you don't want to jump on the Pro Tools or Logic train you may want to check out Sonar. I found that to be more stable and easier to work with than Cubase.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Joeywhat]

Pro Tools is the most used DAW software in the industry for a reason: it's damn good. You will never find yourself wondering how to get something done, it's all right there, easy as clicking a button. The tab to transient feature alone makes it a great program.

Otherwise, I'd go with Sonar. I've used versions 4 and 6, and will probably buy 7 soon. Sonar 6 producer edition is great, it has all the features you'll ever need.

As a rule of thumb, Pro Tools is better with audio then with MIDI, and vice-versa for programs like Sonar and Cubase. This is because, back in the day, Pro Tools pretty much only dealt with audio, and Sonar only dealt with MIDI. Throughout the years they have both morphed into a all in one type deal.

 

[Sherwood]

There are simpler solutions, depending on how serious you are. I know the answer is "I'm a real musician, I'm totally serious', so I guess my advice might accompany some soul searching...

Your MIDI interface, Audio interface, and Keyboard can easily all come in the same package. This saves weight, cost, and desk real estate. It also sacrifices quality, though, so be warned.

Keyboards like the M-Audio Ozonic (ta-daa!) function as a mic and instrument preamp and a MIDI interface. All this data is then sent to your computer via USB. It's compact, which is nice if you need to pack the studio up and go record somewhere else. It also draws your entire studio's power off of one wall wart, and prohibits you from tweaking the sound of your equipment.

Pair something like that with a decent DAW and you've got a stew goin', baby.

 

[xromanticistx]

Alright guys: UPDATE.

I've been reading more about MIDI and such -- I've also ditched Fruity Loops for Sonar 7 Producer Edition.

I've been taking notes (the best way for me to learn =P) on MIDI, and this is what I have so far: (Please tell me if anything is wrong)

Midi Basics:

MIDI

-Musical Instrument Digital Interface


A system that allows elec instrument / computer control other instruments.

MIDI messages = set of commands that cause electric. instrument to play certain sounds w/ certain style/time

MIDI =/= sounds of instrument -- MIDI = record COMMANDS of instrument in the way u want it to be played

MIDI notes can be read and displayed by MUSIC NOTATION PROGRAM

Digi Audio cannot.

Once MIDI data is recorded, u use SOFTWARE (SONAR) to convert to Digi Audio for MP3s.



MIDI Advantages:
Smaller files than Digital Audio (Just commands, not actual sound)

Can save as a 'Standard MIDI File' to be used in multiple progs.

Can record as slowly as u want -- then change tempo in software.

Easier to edit b/c only 'commands'

Can be printed as: Standard Musical Notation / Lead Sheets

Can be used with SAMPLES for high quality sound.

MIDI Disadvantages:
Can sound mechanical (if not recorded in real time)

Many instruments sound artifical on built-in synths on low-end sound cards.

Midi Channels:

Most MIDI instruments play +16 sounds simultaneously. (amount - POLYPHONY)

Multitimbral = instrument that can play more than one sound simultaneously.


MIDI has MIDI Channels - Each channel assigned to a SOUND.

MIDI Messages (midi note data) contain channels 1 through 16.


You need a MIDI system (or INTERFACE) for MIDI sounds to enter and exit your computer via hardware.

Standalone interface or a keyboard with built-in MIDI. (most do.)

Computer -> (midi message) -> midi instrument
Results in software playing MIDI instrument.

--------



I see how MIDI can be much more manageable because it's so much easier to manipulate. You just record the MIDI Data and play it through the Soft Synth of your choice.

Is Digital Audio (exclusively) really for just more of an organic sound in terms of live instruments?

Edit: By the way, I tried plugging in my guitar (for the hell of it) into my mic/line input and sonar didn't recognize it :/ any suggestions? I haven't learned much of Sonar.. then again I'm not sure what I CAN learn without a Midi instrument + Interface. Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[Joeywhat]

Yes, that's pretty much what MIDI is.

As for your guitar, Sonar doesn't recognize an instrument, it's either there or it's not. You need to make sure that the input of that track is set correctly, and that if you're using a sound card the mic/line in is enabled and the level is turned up.

Yes, MIDI is much easier to deal with. But it's rarely a replacement for the real thing. Hence why bands aren't just recording everything via MIDI. One other thing you don't get with MIDI is being able to play back the exact sound of the exact instrument you want to play. Sure, you could sample every single note on your guitar, for instance, and map that to a keyboard, but what about string noise, or any small nuances that reflect how you play the instrument and how it's built?

Getting all of that into a sample, and making it able to be played back easily is a damn hard task. At the end of the day, if you're good at guitar, and want guitar in your song, play it yourself.

Another reason live is better is because of the way MIDI works in terms of note positioning. Unless you have way too much time on your hand, the program will automatically line up all the notes either right on the correct beat, or close enough to where it sounds like it's on the beat. You can automatically add "grooves", where the sequencer will shift the notes off beat a bit, but in the end, all the notes will be off by the same amount. It's just very difficult to replace the playing style of a well seasoned musician.

 

[xromanticistx]

Well, I'm in the very beginning stages of guitar, so perhaps down the road that will be a more appropriate thing to do..

As for now, I think MIDI will reap the most benefits for my purposes. (making songs

)

I'm still debating what MIDI controller + Interface would best suit my needs..

I want something that will allow me to transfer the MIDI easily into samples. I know that isn't really specific, but an entry-level that will allow me to progress to intermediate is probably what I'm looking for. Keep in mind this will be used with Sonar 7, if that is any factor.

In addition, is there a way in Sonar to hear the MIDI through a soft synth in real time? Like, as I press a key on the keyboard, the midi data goes to the computer and intro the program -> playing the soft synth of the same note?

I ask this because sometimes it's hard for me to know what melodies go with what samples until I hear it myself.. so when constructing a song it would just take longer with that guesswork involved. (relying solely on MIDI)

Thanks. <3<3<3

 

[Joeywhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xromanticistx /img/forum/go_quote.gif In addition, is there a way in Sonar to hear the MIDI through a soft synth in real time? Like, as I press a key on the keyboard, the midi data goes to the computer and intro the program -> playing the soft synth of the same note? I ask this because sometimes it's hard for me to know what melodies go with what samples until I hear it myself.. so when constructing a song it would just take longer with that guesswork involved. (relying solely on MIDI) Thanks. <3<3<3

Yes. When you set up a soft synth and set the correct I/O, the soft synth can be played in real time. You will need to adjust the buffer, however, as in most cases it's set pretty high out of the box.

T0 not notice any delay you should set the buffer to <10 ms.

 

[Sherwood]

To get a delay of under 10 ms, you'll need to either have an interface that supports ASIO, or you'll need to use ASIO4ALL.