[palmfish]

Quote:

And the DAC is supposed to convert 0s and 1s to an analog audio signal without coloration, and the amplifier is supposed to make that line level signal audible and nothing else yada, it never really turns out to do what it was meant to do in theory. Just sayin'
I find it funny that all this stuff actually has differences where it supposedly shouldn't lol, theory =/= practice...
 


 

Yeah, I hear ya. I don't pretend to understand it either. I just try to get the big stuff right and don't sweat the small stuff.
 

 
 

 

[Redcarmoose]

Well, just remember what a phonostage does it adds back an eq and amplifies the signal. The RIAA curve is done and if you think they are all the same you should listen to a couple of different ones. I have tried lots and you need to both have a cartridge and turntable which will be a pure enough source to tell in the first place. Then an amp and headphone that will show you the differences. Just like different amps, each phonostage has it's own character, let alone ways to load and do the RIAA curve. So there are really a lot of variables to contend with. Many believe what is important up stream is more important than what is down stream, the phonostage is pretty close to the start. I had a Stanton preamp/phonostage that was the major one used in radio stations in the 1970s and at $85.00 it was a good starter. I switched to a better one and it resulted in more authority and warmth. I later borrowed phonostages to demo, just still looking for improvement. There is also a need to match your needle to the phonostage, not just mm or mc matching but getting the character of your needle/cartridge setup to match the character of the phonostage. Also some phonostages put out more signal some less, some phonostages put out more ground hum than others. All phonostages made have ground hum if you turn up the volume enough with no needle down playing a record. Getting the blackest background is a result of a lesser ground hum. Each has different levels of distortion too. Some phonostages sound thin and some bass heavy, so it is finding the one with the sound signature your into and the one in your price point which matches all your other gear correctly.
 
As you try different one each has a different soundstage with speakers as some phonostages have a wide soundstage and some flat and less 3d. Some have better pace or as you could say PRaT, some have more detail but are less musical. Finding the right phonostage is maybe a little luck mixed with trail and error. The more you try the more experienced you get. The odds of finding the perfect phonostage increase with the more you demo. You can also ask for advice from more experienced folks who have tried a bunch. The phonostage almost ends up being a fine tune eq to get the correct tone in the end with your particular system dynamics and character.
 
Quote:

 


I'm a big sceptic of phono stage hype. All it needs to do is step up the output of the turntable without coloring. Pretty simple and I'm sure your Sony does a perfectly acceptable job.
 
You can always try it out and look into an outboard preamp if you don't like the results.
 

 

 

[jtaylor991]

Thank you for the very informative post. I have one question related to stages: If my receiver has a built in stage, how can I bypass it? I have my own stage I bought thinking my receiver didn't have a stage (found out today it did, using two stages made me think the turntable was messed up so I had it repaired, and there were problems so yeah but still grr lol) and I want to see if it is better or not.
 
I seem to have to really up the bass in my EQ, but I did change cartridges (from a worn out Shure V15VMR like I had earlier to a $30 Ortofon Omega) and stages and had repairs done, and I have speakers that rely on a sub bass radiator for the lows (Polk Audio Monitor 10s, not sure which version unfortunately), and I want to see if it adds any more detail or even more bass. Can I do that?
 
Quote:

Well, just remember what a phonostage does it adds back an eq and amplifies the signal. The RIAA curve is done and if you think they are all the same you should listen to a couple of different ones. I have tried lots and you need to both have a cartridge and turntable which will be a pure enough source to tell in the first place. Then an amp and headphone that will show you the differences. Just like different amps, each phonostage has it's own character, let alone ways to load and do the RIAA curve. So there are really a lot of variables to contend with. Many believe what is important up stream is more important than what is down stream, the phonostage is pretty close to the start. I had a Stanton preamp/phonostage that was the major one used in radio stations in the 1970s and at $85.00 it was a good starter. I switched to a better one and it resulted in more authority and warmth. I later borrowed phonostages to demo, just still looking for improvement. There is also a need to match your needle to the phonostage, not just mm or mc matching but getting the character of your needle/cartridge setup to match the character of the phonostage. Also some phonostages put out more signal some less, some phonostages put out more ground hum than others. All phonostages made have ground hum if you turn up the volume enough with no needle down playing a record. Getting the blackest background is a result of a lesser ground hum. Each has different levels of distortion too. Some phonostages sound thin and some bass heavy, so it is finding the one with the sound signature your into and the one in your price point which matches all your other gear correctly.
 
As you try different one each has a different soundstage with speakers as some phonostages have a wide soundstage and some flat and less 3d. Some have better pace or as you could say PRaT, some have more detail but are less musical. Finding the right phonostage is maybe a little luck mixed with trail and error. The more you try the more experienced you get. The odds of finding the perfect phonostage increase with the more you demo. You can also ask for advice from more experienced folks who have tried a bunch. The phonostage almost ends up being a fine tune eq to get the correct tone in the end with your particular system dynamics and character.
 


 

 

 

[calipilot227]

Quote:

Thank you for the very informative post. I have one question related to stages: If my receiver has a built in stage, how can I bypass it? I have my own stage I bought thinking my receiver didn't have a stage (found out today it did, using two stages made me think the turntable was messed up so I had it repaired, and there were problems so yeah but still grr lol) and I want to see if it is better or not.
 
I seem to have to really up the bass in my EQ, but I did change cartridges (from a worn out Shure V15VMR like I had earlier to a $30 Ortofon Omega) and stages and had repairs done, and I have speakers that rely on a sub bass radiator for the lows (Polk Audio Monitor 10s, not sure which version unfortunately), and I want to see if it adds any more detail or even more bass. Can I do that?
 


 

Connect the output from your phono preamp to any input other than the phono input on your receiver. And yeah, double-preamping is bad. Don't do it.
 

 

[jtaylor991]

My records sounded like bad reception AM radio so bad that it would damage the tweeters. My local vinyl shop determined that it was a grounding issue inside the turntable since on their test there was so much noise they couldn't do it lol. They did that and I got it back today, same issue. Then I wished I knew if my receiver (inherited w/o papers) had a built in stage. Then I noted an MC under the Phono light on the input selection screen and I thought Moving Coil. It does! I saw the MM too not lit up so I looked for the button and found the button that said MM/MC that I never knew what is was before. Took out my outboard stage, changed it to MM to fit my cartridge and voila! There was still an issue but wow.
 
One time the drivers unloaded and flew out of control on my speakers and squeaked etc and it scared the living crap out of me! My guy said that it was because of the RIAA curve and that I didn't have a stage. I guess that was the grounding issue they found and fixed. And it was on MC on a MM cartridge but that works now, the highs just disappear, only the low bass gets through, nothing that sounds dangerous. What a story/journey...
 
I'll post pics of the table again sometime. I will have a good DSLR camera next semester so I'll post rig pics to the pics of your rig threads I follow including this one. Or earlier with my phone if you guys prefer.
 
Quote:

Connect the output from your phono preamp to any input other than the phono input on your receiver. And yeah, double-preamping is bad. Don't do it.
 

 

 

[calipilot227]

Quote:

My records sounded like bad reception AM radio so bad that it would damage the tweeters. My local vinyl shop determined that it was a grounding issue inside the turntable since on their test there was so much noise they couldn't do it lol. They did that and I got it back today, same issue. Then I wished I knew if my receiver (inherited w/o papers) had a built in stage. Then I noted an MC under the Phono light on the input selection screen and I thought Moving Coil. It does! I saw the MM too not lit up so I looked for the button and found the button that said MM/MC that I never knew what is was before. Took out my outboard stage, changed it to MM to fit my cartridge and voila! There was still an issue but wow.
 
One time the drivers unloaded and flew out of control on my speakers and squeaked etc and it scared the living crap out of me! My guy said that it was because of the RIAA curve and that I didn't have a stage. I guess that was the grounding issue they found and fixed. And it was on MC on a MM cartridge but that works now, the highs just disappear, only the low bass gets through, nothing that sounds dangerous. What a story/journey...
 
I'll post pics of the table again sometime. I will have a good DSLR camera next semester so I'll post rig pics to the pics of your rig threads I follow including this one. Or earlier with my phone if you guys prefer.
 

Yikes! Whatever you do, PLEASE don't blow out your Monitor 10's! I had the privilege of hearing a set recently, and I must say they are very nice speakers. Especially if you get them for free 

 

 

[calipilot227]

Just popped in a new stylus on my PL-518...wow! What a difference. The old stylus must have been really worn.

 

[jtaylor991]

Yeah no kidding. Wonderful for the price of free. I am a newbie with vinyl so I have many more mistakes to make, but they are all gonna be first timers that will probably never happen again like when I came upstairs just 10min ago and went to put the arm back on the stand on the side of the turntable the stylus scraped against the record! :S I won't ever do that again. Made me half jump out of my skin since the speakers were on :S not nearly as bad as other times though. Plus, it wasn't bad for the speakers, can't of been much different than a record scratch wicky woo lol and the cartridge/stylus combo is $30 anyway
 
I also left a box of 45s in my sis's car for a few hours to bake in the sun. One single melted and like shriveled up. Song was Heaven and Hell by The Who, one of them that was probably worth listening to
 
Quote:

Yikes! Whatever you do, PLEASE don't blow out your Monitor 10's! I had the privilege of hearing a set recently, and I must say they are very nice speakers. Especially if you get them for free 

 

 

 

[mikerobe]

 
It just feels like it's been a while since a pic was posted.  Consider it the tt pron equivalent of comic relief in a serious story.

 

[calipilot227]

Quote:

Yeah no kidding. Wonderful for the price of free. I am a newbie with vinyl so I have many more mistakes to make, but they are all gonna be first timers that will probably never happen again like when I came upstairs just 10min ago and went to put the arm back on the stand on the side of the turntable the stylus scraped against the record! :S I won't ever do that again. Made me half jump out of my skin since the speakers were on :S not nearly as bad as other times though. Plus, it wasn't bad for the speakers, can't of been much different than a record scratch wicky woo lol and the cartridge/stylus combo is $30 anyway
 
I also left a box of 45s in my sis's car for a few hours to bake in the sun. One single melted and like shriveled up. Song was Heaven and Hell by The Who, one of them that was probably worth listening to
 


 

Lesson #1: Always use the cueing lever. Lesson #2: Don't leave records in hot places. I've been spinning records since I was 5 ears old when I uncovered a Radioshack record changer in the attic 

 You just have to learn to be careful more than anything else. If you're good to your vinyl, it will be good to you.
 


Quote:

 
It just feels like it's been a while since a pic was posted.  Consider it the tt pron equivalent of comic relief in a serious story.

Thanks for getting us back on track 

 

 

[Redcarmoose]

 
Quote:

Yikes! Whatever you do, PLEASE don't blow out your Monitor 10's! I had the privilege of hearing a set recently, and I must say they are very nice speakers. Especially if you get them for free 

 

Yes, last year I blew one of my tweeters with a screechy sound from a phono stage. I guess the screechy sound was too much for it.

 

[J.Pocalypse]

Subscribed.

 

[jtaylor991]

The lever was in fact lifted. Lesson is make sure you aren't looking down on to the turntable so you can tell if you are putting too much downward pressure on the arm/cartridge in transport to the resting place.
 
Quote:

Lesson #1: Always use the cueing lever. Lesson #2: Don't leave records in hot places. I've been spinning records since I was 5 ears old when I uncovered a Radioshack record changer in the attic 

 You just have to learn to be careful more than anything else. If you're good to your vinyl, it will be good to you.
 

Thanks for getting us back on track 

 

 

 

[Redcarmoose]

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1327878458
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
Not my turntable, but one of many on Audiogon at the moment.

 

[cifani090]

Quote:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1327878458
 
Not my turntable, but one of many on Audiogon at the moment.

Nice, but big like the old table top art deco turntables.