[zorin]

Lame excuses and more back pedaling. Enjoy the holidays.

Can we see a photo of your police badge or police I.D. ?

 

[analogsurviver]

@CrazyRay - thank you for the answers ! 

 

[]eep]

I do know that chair. The real deal is a lot more expensive than most people spend on their stereo+tv. I was thinking about a reproduction, but I don't have the room for it. But I'm sitting on an EA-219 behind my desk atm. White+alu. A reproduction...

I can remember the view is equally stunning. High above the landscape.

 

[msiklvr]

Interesting thread.  Nice pictures and exceptionally informative discussions. 
 
When I'm able to post pictures I'll submit a couple of pics of my heavily modified (by someone else) Mapleknoll Apollo, which I sold prior to moving to the other continent.  Too large and heavy to transport to Europe.   Starting over now that I'm settled and looking for something in the 4k euro range.  Seems like there are a lot of choices but all seem to need a chain of upgrades to bring them to best performance. 
 
The Transrotor Fat Bob looks like it might fit the bill.  Transrotor doesn't seem to be a popular choice among the members of this forum.  Is there something significant which brings it into disfavor?  Any suggestions of a starting point would be appreciated.

 

[CrazyRay]

I do know that chair. The real deal is a lot more expensive than most people spend on their stereo+tv. I was thinking about a reproduction.

Please save your money and buy an original.
Over the years I have bought a couple of reproduction chairs and couches.
All of the reproductions failed after a couple of years (torn seams, thin leather that ripped), I ended up throwing them out, wasting my money.

I finally gave up and bought the real thing, and I have not been happier.
It is a true pleasure sitting in an original Eames lounge chair, Marcel Breuer Wassily Chair, Gerrit Retveld Zigzag stoel and an Le Corbusier Sofa.

It took me many years to save up to buy the original furniture and it was well worth the wait.
One original piece of furniture is worth more than 5 copies.


 

 

[Funambulistic]

I agree. I am an interior designer and lusted after the Eames for years. Several of my friends have received them as gifts or were lucky enough to happen upon them at severely discounted prices. I've seen several knock-offs on Ebay but cannot bring myself to purchase one...

 

[]eep]

I know and I agree taht the original is better and keeps it value etc. But €8000 for a chair is really a lot of money. And a reproduction is not the same as a cheap copy or knockoff. Prices and quality vary greatly. And the design is around 60 years old!

Last month I saw a cunsumer education programme about 'what does a couch cost?' They took an Ikea Klippan apart and looked what was inside. They added all the (wholesale)prices of the parts. They bought an expensive designercouch and did the same. The materials were slightly better and the construction was just a bit better and different. The materials cost €350 for the Ikea and €450 for the designercouch. But the Klippan costs only €169 where the designercouch costs €3000. They asked the (retired) designer of the Klippan about the difference. Why can Ikea sell so cheap? He said: "they are good at acquisition". And about the designercouch he said he does not believe that good furnature needs to be expensive. Part of the price is in the exclusivity of the design (designing takes time) and in the low quantities. When asked about the great difference he just asked with a big smile:"well, what do you think?" The famous Dutch designer of the expensive designcouch did not want to appear on tv and had no comment (which says a lot because he is on tv very, very often). I guess the same goes for audio as well. Many sellers are quite opaque about how their prices are built up.

Transrotor doesn't seem to be a popular choice among the members of this forum. Is there something significant which brings it into disfavor?

I think price has a lot to do with that, plus it is German and heavy, and this is an mainly American forum. That makes the price even higher and it doesn't help price/performance ratio for most visitors. Personaly I find them not very 'sexy'. But that's just my opinion (de gustibus non est disputandum).

 

[analogsurviver]

  Interesting thread.  Nice pictures and exceptionally informative discussions. 
 
When I'm able to post pictures I'll submit a couple of pics of my heavily modified (by someone else) Mapleknoll Apollo, which I sold prior to moving to the other continent.  Too large and heavy to transport to Europe.   Starting over now that I'm settled and looking for something in the 4k euro range.  Seems like there are a lot of choices but all seem to need a chain of upgrades to bring them to best performance. 
 
The Transrotor Fat Bob looks like it might fit the bill.  Transrotor doesn't seem to be a popular choice among the members of this forum.  Is there something significant which brings it into disfavor?  Any suggestions of a starting point would be appreciated.

First, welcome to the head-fi - and sorry for your wallet.
 
I think you pretty much answered your own question. You had one of the best TTs, even modified - and still you sold it prior moving to other continent. Neither Mapleknoll Apollo (being from Europe, never seen one of those in flesh, for the same reason ) nor Fat Bob are shipping friendly due to weight when packed properly not to sustain shipping damage.
 
Transrotor is something of an oddball - save for the paperweight category like The Funk Firm, they have produced a belt driven turntable in any form known to the mankind. Enough to give you an idea of diversity is to search for Transrotor on ebay.de. They started with selling Mitchell TTs from England ( Michell Reference Hydraulic = Transrotor AC ) - after it was found that production under licence in Germany would cost more.
They also sell Rega , SME and Jelco (sometimes modified ) rebadged arms and Goldring rebadged cartridges.
 
Currently they are making their own designs - including Fat Bob. Now it is "around the corner" for you, the best thing to do is to get a demo and listen to it  for yourself. 
 
 

 

[msiklvr]

Hi Analogsurviver,
Thanks for the video and words of wisdom.
 
The Apollo was a highly modified Lloyd Walker prototype.  The system behind it was of a similar caliber.  When I left the US, I had been a bachelor with no constraints on esthetics or space.  The Apollo is a brute of a plinth.  When I moved to France, in the city, as a married man, esthetics, harmony and space played a larger roll in my hifi decisions!  My beautiful system in the US became a hulking monster in France.  So, it all went to another home before I moved.  We have since moved from the cramped house in the city to a larger space in the country, but the criteria remains concerning harmony and esthetics.  We must both find it acceptable.  The TT cannot dominate the room. 
 
I've rebuilt my system. While not at the same level as that in the US, it serves adequately for the existing constraints (Luxman 507u, KEF 201/2, Meitner Ma-1, Squeezebox Touch).  This is my Flac based system.  While it would be wonderful to approach the levels of fidelity of the Apollo, I would be happy to find a TT which gives speed stability and provides a platform from which relatively flat frequency response can be extracted with the right tonearm and cartridge.  At the moment I have an ET-2 linear tracker and a Carnegie One cartridge.  This is a starting point, though not the end. I have a library of around 3k lps so a TT is a must.
 
Anyway, this is just background to give you all an idea of what works for me at the moment.
 
Finding a listening room around the Ardennes of France is a bit of a challenge.  I do accept your comment, one must listen to make a decision.  Most likely the purchasing decision will be based on luck and price with a vendor from somewhere in Germany or GB.  I think your comment of transport is well founded.  A trip to the source will be required.
 
From this forum and others Clear Audio, Townshend, Transrotor, and Rega seem to be the major contenders, with VPI, Bergmann, and others a higher priced alternative.  I'm ok with used
 
As for the wallet, well, this is not the hobby to be concerned with price.  The pleasure of music without distractions from artifacts is worth whatever is costs and is ultimately the determination of price.
 
Regards,
 Ron

 

[msiklvr]

One more question to the forum.  I've read the comments on this forum and others concerning high mass vs suspension systems.  Most seem to address the environment, choosing high mass for stable environment and suspension for active environment (e.g wood floors).  Other factors play into this such as interaction from speakers.  What are your thoughts concerning a stable environment, (cement floor and tile) in the same plane as speakers.  If adequately anchored via the stand, but in proximity with the speakers (1 meter from the speaker), is a high mass system sufficiently immune from airborne resonance?  Is a suspension system superior in this instance?

 

[analogsurviver]

  Hi Analogsurviver,
Thanks for the video and words of wisdom.
 
The Apollo was a highly modified Lloyd Walker prototype.  The system behind it was of a similar caliber.  When I left the US, I had been a bachelor with no constraints on esthetics or space.  The Apollo is a brute of a plinth.  When I moved to France, in the city, as a married man, esthetics, harmony and space played a larger roll in my hifi decisions!  My beautiful system in the US became a hulking monster in France.  So, it all went to another home before I moved.  We have since moved from the cramped house in the city to a larger space in the country, but the criteria remains concerning harmony and esthetics.  We must both find it acceptable.  The TT cannot dominate the room. 
 
I've rebuilt my system. While not at the same level as that in the US, it serves adequately for the existing constraints (Luxman 507u, KEF 201/2, Meitner Ma-1, Squeezebox Touch).  This is my Flac based system.  While it would be wonderful to approach the levels of fidelity of the Apollo, I would be happy to find a TT which gives speed stability and provides a platform from which relatively flat frequency response can be extracted with the right tonearm and cartridge.  At the moment I have an ET-2 linear tracker and a Carnegie One cartridge.  This is a starting point, though not the end. I have a library of around 3k lps so a TT is a must.
 
Anyway, this is just background to give you all an idea of what works for me at the moment.
 
Finding a listening room around the Ardennes of France is a bit of a challenge.  I do accept your comment, one must listen to make a decision.  Most likely the purchasing decision will be based on luck and price with a vendor from somewhere in Germany or GB.  I think your comment of transport is well founded.  A trip to the source will be required.
 
From this forum and others Clear Audio, Townshend, Transrotor, and Rega seem to be the major contenders, with VPI, Bergmann, and others a higher priced alternative.  I'm ok with used
 
As for the wallet, well, this is not the hobby to be concerned with price.  The pleasure of music without distractions from artifacts is worth whatever is costs and is ultimately the determination of price.
 
Regards,
 Ron

Hi Ron ! I appreciate the comprehensive answer. That "around the corner" in Europe still can mean 1000 km+ one direction drive - but at least you no longer have to swim with a Masselaufwerk strapped to your back all the way to USA 

.
 
I am "married" to the ET-2 - for life. The first among many.  And Carnegie One aka Empire MC 1-8 aka Sony XL MC 7?/9? is also one of the dearest carts in my stable.
You need something stable for it - a very stable subchassis suspended table or preferably something more substantial - a high mass TT. ET-2 is often paired with good vintage DD TTs.
 
Townshend would be a great choice - but it is rare and hard to get - and it is very sensitive to shipping damage due to the plaster parts/inserts. Heck, everything you listed should pair reasonably well with ET-2 ... If you need a stable TT that is exceptionally free from feedback etc, you need not to look further than Kuzma Reference.
With ET/Carnegie, this should not lag far behind your ex-Apollo (if at all...)- and it can be found for reasonable price used if you are prepared to wait a bit. 
 
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/kuzma_stabi_e.html
 
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/kuzma/stabi-reference.shtml
 
Or - if you are on a mission to prove really inexpensive TT can be made into something great ( if you do not mind refurbishing it yourself ) - please go a "few" posts of mine back - to see if Telefunken S500 ( silver) or S600 (black) does make sense to you - if nothing else, as an interim solution. Without the coveted arm ( Ortofon AS212) , for which it usually gets caniballized, it can be had for a really friendly price. Natural habitat for these is ebay.de - and this one is shipping friendly if packed reasonably well. But please note it is time consuming to get it up and going - you can be the best judge how much time you can devote to TT refurbishing in "married enviroment" ...
 
Regards,
 
Aleksander

 

[]eep]

I hope you don't mind if I post some pictures of your old 'table? It sure is worth showing...

 

[msiklvr]

Jeep thanks.  Great!  You found it.
 
Those are the pictures I posted for the sale on Audioasylum.
 
This was one of the prototypes, not sure how many we made, prior to the production of Proscenium.  The arm and air manifold are custom.  The air pump was an arrangement of 2 refrigerator compressors.  Lots of tweaks.  It took some time to set up the air lines but once set up it remained quite stable.  The table was quite easy to set up and required very little maintenance to keep it working.
 
Ron

 

[msiklvr]

Aleksander,
 Thanks for the recommendations.  I'll keep an eye out for the Kuzma Reference.
 
I have more time now and its winter (no gardening), so a hobby project might be fun.  I'll have a look back at your posts re the Telefunken.
 
My first project is to build a hifi rack to blend in with the living room furniture.  Everything I see out there is either industrial or overpriced.
 
Regards,
  Ron

 

[bbophead]

I know, it's only a Rega but the album is sensational sounding.  Big mono image, quiet surfaces, scary dynamic range and great jazz.  All from 1950.  So much for progress, ehh?