[Jetblackstar]

Ok, so I've recently stepped into the world of portable Amplifiers and bought a iBasso D-Zero.
Over the moon with it for powering my Denon AH-D2000s and AKG 702's in the office.
 
However I'm in a quandry about using it with my Sansa Clip+ player as a pure Amp (not Dac).
My question is simple but none of the answers I've read in these forums really answer me.
 
What volume should the Sansa Clip+ be set to?
 
The Sansa Clip+ doesnt have a line out and thus needs to be amped via the headphone out. So volume control is a factor.
When it comes to PC audio and volume output via DACs and amps you generally put the volume to full of the PC so that there is no digital messing with the volume. Then let what ever amp you have do the adjustment.
 
Fine for a PC, but your not using battery.
 
I have rockbox on the Sansa Clip and have experimented with setting it to 0db (it can amplify a little and go up to +6db or so but I figured that wasn't right). Which sounds great, but our of interest I did an A-B test with my Denon AH- D-2000s and when I went back to the sansa from my amp I nearly blew my ears off. 
The volume was much higher coming from just the clip+ than I would be comfortable with.
 
I know I'm piping throught the amp for cleaner sound and better quality not really just the ability to amp up for the higher impedance cans but in my head blasting volume into an amp to then tone it down seems silly.
Let alone the fact that it really drains the Clip+s battery much faster.
 
I've tried lower volumes and getting the amp to pipe it up but my ears aren't really giving me a definative answer as to if it sounds as good.
 
What are people's experiences or technical opinions on volumen level out from portable players and portable headphone amps?
 
Thanks in advance
 
-Jet

 

[bowei006]

it is recommended to have it set at 0dB gain and then max out the volume on the clip+ lowering the volume from 100% clips part of the digital data bits from the original stream. I have asked this before back when I was in your situation. Equalizing sound is good but try not to get into sound processors. it seems the 6dB gain you were talking about was from the rockbox OS, i wouldn't recommend doing that stuff just to maintain quality.
 
Make sure to check volume a lot to not blow your ears off.
 
it's hard to hear the difference but technically and also sonically setting it to 0dB gain at max volume to not reduce the quality would be best. it isn't audible many times even if you don't do 100% but sometimes it is(mainly on good oldie well recorded songs that haven't been affected by the loudness war)

 

[Jetblackstar]

Re the 6db (might not be db I just realised it's might just be Rockbox's numbering system, not sure);
Yeah I'll stay away from that, pretty sure your right at that level it will be the OS doing the amplification.
 
Normal listening level when directly on the Clip is about  -15.
 
I understand what your saying about the clipping. That any reduction of volume is essentially digitally degrading the signal.
So when I want true fidelity I should run it at 0db. If I'm out and about and want to save battery I can drop the players volume a bit and use the Amp...I get the feeling that wont be often as I get used to the nicer sound
 
Listening at the moment I think I'm picking up the difference, lower than 0db on the player is giving a slightly lack luster sound.
 
Thanks bowei006, really helpful.
 
If anyone else wants to chime in with any opinions or further technical details I'm intrigued to know. 
 

 

[H20Fidelity]

I asked this question a few hours ago in another thread. I have been through the same thing over and over and I find anything higher than 0db starts clipping, I actually thought I had broken something a few days ago after accidentally bumping the volume control when unplugging the charger (keep an eye on that it happens) You can go into settings > playback settings > reply gain > prevent clipping and switch it to on but I found it drops the output a little. So, using the player with my E11 --  0db still seems the best option, any lower I lose output and it feels lacking any higher I get clipping.

 

[Jetblackstar]

Thanks H20Fidelity, it seems to be a common question but being the irk I am the replies I'd seen had never really answered my question. You guys have helped a lot.
I think I'm starting to find this myself from pure testing.
 
Dam our need for good quality. Higher volume out to the amp will race through the battery faster and ultimately I think I'm right in saying wear out the non replaceable battery faster. (more charge cycles more often). And I weep a little to think I'm killing my Clip+ faster as its a fantastic lil beast for it's price.
 
What bothers me Is I plugged into my D-Zero's line out by accident when using it as a USB dac and the volume was perfect for listening if a little quiet. I only realised what I'd done when the volume control didn't work.
So line out volumes obviously aren't blastingly high, just there not clipped.
 
So it's really the Clip+'s problem of not having a LOD
 
Guess I'm unlikely to find a player with all it's pro's and a LOD for a similar price.
 
-Jet

 

[milford30]

sansa fuze sells cheaper than the clip+ on ebay and it supports LOD, just that it's annoying in getting it to work in rockbox (some brief instructions on the rockbox site), but the LOD works perfectly with the original firmware, so you can switch between them depending on when u want a lineout.
Quote:

Thanks H20Fidelity, it seems to be a common question but being the irk I am the replies I'd seen had never really answered my question. You guys have helped a lot.
I think I'm starting to find this myself from pure testing.
 
Dam our need for good quality. Higher volume out to the amp will race through the battery faster and ultimately I think I'm right in saying wear out the non replaceable battery faster. (more charge cycles more often). And I weep a little to think I'm killing my Clip+ faster as its a fantastic lil beast for it's price.
 
What bothers me Is I plugged into my D-Zero's line out by accident when using it as a USB dac and the volume was perfect for listening if a little quiet. I only realised what I'd done when the volume control didn't work.
So line out volumes obviously aren't blastingly high, just there not clipped.
 
So it's really the Clip+'s problem of not having a LOD
 
Guess I'm unlikely to find a player with all it's pro's and a LOD for a similar price.
 
-Jet

 

 

[Jetblackstar]

ooo Nice, I never realised that.
 
Shame they screwed up the successor Fuze+ with it's capacitive d-pad, but here's hoping they fix it for the next release of that line (Must be due soon if they came out with the Clip Zip?).
 
Many thanks, I'll try out a Fuze original and LOD. Went for the Clip+ for its size and super simplicity, colour and vid really arent important over audio quality battery and phyisical buttons for me
But now I have it Id be happy to invest similar money in a player equally capable but a bit bigger and LOD capability, can have both portable and high fidelity when I feel the need. Greedy me.

 

[Jetblackstar]

Interesting point.
Playing with my lil Sony MDR-EX71 and think they are being more tolerant to dropping the Clip+s volume a tad and letting the amp boost the rest. The amp still gives a vast improvement in richness and detail than the Clip+ alone, but without having to make my Clip+ peddle so hard.
 
I don't know if it's the lower impedance, the amp running on the lower gain switch or just the fact there not particularly amazing IEMs or headphones compared to the Denon AH-D2000s. But the Denons definitely agree with what's been suggested above. I can hear it much more clearly now.
 
I'm winding up to getting some Soundmagic E10s shortly so I'll report back if there giving similar results or hilight the players clipping.
 
Thanks all.