[matonator]

Hi there, I am new here.
 
Today I bought my new headphones - Sennheiser Momentum and since I have galaxy s2 (sound quality is really poor) I was considering to buy a new portable player. I found in forums that Sansadisk Clip plus/zip seems to be really good. Do you think it will do good with my new headphones? Or do you have another choice for me? (let's say in same price range). Thank you for answer

 

[Coop]

Clip+/Zip will do the job, Clip+/Zip + a Fiio E6 will do the job better

 

[Ev0lution]

What about a Portable DAC/AMP Combo for you S2 to bypass the built-in DAC?
Maybe something like the Fiio E07k?

 

[matonator]

Quote:

What about a Portable DAC/AMP Combo for you S2 to bypass the built-in DAC?
Maybe something like the Fiio E07k?

well but I can't connect DAC/AMP via usb OTG, and I think via jack the sound won't be that good. But, that is just my opinion, I am still headphone noob . I appreaciate any advice here

 

[Coop]

Quote:

What about a Portable DAC/AMP Combo for you S2 to bypass the built-in DAC?
 

S2 doesn't support USB-Audio. At least not with original rom...

 

[matonator]

Quote:

S2 doesn't support USB-Audio. At least not with original rom...

I think there is no rom which can do it with S2. I am running on cyanogenmod 10.1 anyway...

 

[Ev0lution]

EDIT: Please Delete!

 

[DrKrFfXx]

I'm really struggling with this also, I want a new quality PMP for my Momentums, right now I'm using my cell phone as source, the Xperia S, and although it sounds alright, I think I can get more out of my babies, specially soundstage wise.
 
I don't really want a big PMP, I was looking into the Walkman Z series, and altough it receives a lot of praise for its sound quality, I don't really wanna have to go through the pain of having two BIG devices laying around on my pockets, and spending 300€ on a similar device to my current SXS (both from Sony, both have 4.3", both Android devices), just for a certain % upgrade in SQ makes me feel kinda guilty.
 
Walkman F also gets my attention, but still not tiny enough, although more portable at 3.5". And I don't now if the more portable Walkman (Ipod Nano like) can match the sound quality of their big brothers. Will the E series provide sufficent quality to consider it an upgrade to the Xperia S quality? I have an Ipod Nano 4G and I like the size of it, but it sounds bloody grainy, bloody awful. Cowons are really hard to get here, and I don't really like their lower end resistive and low quality screens, being acustomed to the HD picture of my SXS as I am.
 
I'm really struggling guys.

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

Clip+/Zip will do the job, Clip+/Zip + a Fiio E6 will do the job better

 
If better means better sq, no. Two amplifiers combined are always worse than one amp unless that single amp doesn't enough power to drive the phones without clipping (because you'll get the noise and distortion from both, etc.) And the Clip will drive HD25s fine without an amp. The only place an amp will improve a clip with HD25s is in extending battery life - but you will give up sq rather than gain it.
 
Oh - the E6 may or may not have a tone you prefer to the Clip's amp, but that's what EQ is for...
 
However, do Rockbox the Clip - its free and the extras are quite useful: www.rockbox.org

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

I'm really struggling with this also, I want a new quality PMP for my Momentums, right now I'm using my cell phone as source, the Xperia S, and although it sounds alright, I think I can get more out of my babies, specially soundstage wise.
 
I don't really want a big PMP, I was looking into the Walkman Z series, and altough it receives a lot of praise for its sound quality, I don't really wanna have to go through the pain of having two BIG devices laying around on my pockets, and spending 300€ on a similar device to my current SXS (both from Sony, both have 4.3", both Android devices), just for a certain % upgrade in SQ makes me feel kinda guilty.
 
Walkman F also gets my attention, but still not tiny enough, although more portable at 3.5". And I don't now if the more portable Walkman (Ipod Nano like) can match the sound quality of their big brothers. Will the E series provide sufficent quality to consider it an upgrade to the Xperia S quality? I have an Ipod Nano 4G and I like the size of it, but it sounds bloody grainy, bloody awful. Cowons are really hard to get here, and I don't really like their lower end resistive and low quality screens, being acustomed to the HD picture of my SXS as I am.
 
I'm really struggling guys.

 
Just buy a Clip+ and ignore the Placebo Effectoids: the Clip will drive HD25s and even Fostex TR100s without an amp and without problems and it is tiny and cheap. The Momentums you want to drive are much easier targets.

 

[Coop]

Quote:

 
If better means better sq, no. Two amplifiers combined are always worse than one amp unless that single amp doesn't enough power to drive the phones without clipping (because you'll get the noise and distortion from both, etc.) And the Clip will drive HD25s fine without an amp. The only place an amp will improve a clip with HD25s is in extending battery life - but you will give up sq rather than gain it.
 
Oh - the E6 may or may not have a tone you prefer to the Clip's amp, but that's what EQ is for...
 
However, do Rockbox the Clip - its free and the extras are quite useful: www.rockbox.org

 
Keep in mind that a Rockboxed Clip+ at 0db is pretty much as close to a Line-out as a headphone out will ever get. While the theory about double amping is absolutely right, the Clip+ seems one of the rare exceptions to the rule, sure it's not perfect, but as we are talking about a Clip+ I'm not exactly expecting it to be used in some audiophile listeningroom setup, and the Clip+ headphone out as Line out certainly is of a very acceptable level for daily use.
 
Adding the E6 inbetween the Clip+ and the Momentum made quite a difference to my ears. Sure, the Clip+ is able to drive the Momentum stand alone too, but the E6 just adds a little power to make it sound... ehhhh... More 'convincing' (I don't know how else to describe it). So let me rephrase my previous statement. The Clip+ with the Fiio E6 on the Sennheiser Momentum will not improve the soundquality, but my overall listening experience was improved by the extra power the E6 brings to the table. It made the Momentum reproduce the sound more 'effortless' than with the Clip+ alone.
And with the price of the E6, there's not much lost in giving it a go. If you don't like it, you can always try to sell it again or it could make a nice gift...

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

 
Keep in mind that a Rockboxed Clip+ at 0db is pretty much as close to a Line-out as a headphone out will ever get. While the theory about double amping is absolutely right, the Clip+ seems one of the rare exceptions to the rule, sure it's not perfect, but as we are talking about a Clip+ 

 
You are missing the point: the Clip is not the thing being added. A Clip plus anything will have more noise than just a Clip, and the better the Clip's performance, the relatively worse the result's performance will be! 
 

 
Adding the E6 inbetween the Clip+ and the Momentum made quite a difference to my ears

Sure, the Clip+ is able to drive the Momentum stand alone too, but the E6 just adds a little power to make it sound... ehhhh... More 'convincing' (I don't know how else to describe it). So let me rephrase my previous statement. The Clip+ with the Fiio E6 on the Sennheiser Momentum will not improve the soundquality, but my overall listening experience was improved by the extra power the E6 brings to the table. It made the Momentum reproduce the sound more 'effortless' than with the Clip+ alone.

 
Either
 
1. You could get the same results with eq, because you just prefer the Fiio signature (and there is no guarantee that anyone else would share your tastes)
 
2. This is placebo effect
 
3. You are right and modern electronic engineering is wrong
 
Realistically, which do you think is more likely...? I'm betting on 2, because it is so damn common and I have a dim memory that the Fiio and Clip fr graphs are very close, with a tiny amount of room left for 1.

 

[Coop]

I'm not missing your point, I already stated that when sticking to the theory, you are absolutely right. But I guess I'm failing to get my point across. 
 
My point is that there is more to it than just soundquality. I'm not talking about electronic engineering, I'm talking about how the listener experiences things. It's all about finding a balance between all factors to create a sound that suits you. That's why I said it made a difference to MY ears and was talking about MY overall listening experience. In the end it's all a matter of perception.
 
 
I know this isn't anything scientific, but if how a listener experiences his music, is expressed in points, a base number (eg 100) and changes to the setup can either add or subtract points (and more points is a better user experience).
 
Let's say the the Clip+ & Momentum setup has 100 points.
Now I introduce the E6 in the mix, yes, the soundquality will be less, but not a whole lot, you wouldn't hear it unless paying attention to it and most people with 'untrained' ears probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all, so let's say this is -5 points to me. But the added power (a difference of 15mW vs. 150mW at 16 ohm) of the E6 to drive the Momentum has an impact on the sound which I like so much, that I give this change +10 points.
You do sacrifice some soundquality, but overall the listening experience gained 5 points. This is ofcourse all a very personal matter. It could very well be the other way around for someone else.
 
But isn't this is why we share our experiences on forums like head-fi? To learn from eachothers experiences? I have found a few headfiers who's tastes match mine pretty closely. If they share their experience with a certain setup, I pretty much know immediately if I can buy it blindly, need to try before I buy or not bother with it at all. This has saved me from making a few purchases that I would have regretted. And as I have a very limited budget for this hobby, that's a big deal to me. So I share my experiences, hoping that it might help out someone else too. 

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

Now I introduce the E6 in the mix, yes, the soundquality will be less, but not a whole lot, you wouldn't hear it unless paying attention to it and most people with 'untrained' ears probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all, so let's say this is -5 points to me. But the added power (a difference of 15mW vs. 150mW at 16 ohm) of the E6 to drive the Momentum has an impact on the sound which I like so much, that I give this change +10 points.
 

 
But that added power has no effect audible effect at all unless you were clipping previously at the volume level you want to listen at. This isn't personal, it's electronic engineering - the output of an amp is simply a nice easily measured electrical signal until it reaches the headphones. If you are experiencing anything else, it's either placebo or an FR change that a quick EQ tweak could duplicate.
 
I'm really not saying this to be a pain or a know-it-all: FiiO amps are inoffensively cheap and actually pretty damn good quality, but a lot of people are scammed into buying ridiculously expensive amps that make no difference at all to sq (other than maybe a change that, again, a dab of EQ could reproduce) when they could have saved themselves a lot of money and bought the cheapest amp with a reasonable noise spec and enough power to prevent clipping:
 
http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
 
..And the spec of the Clip+ is such that it reaches that level for any sane volume with Momentums with no amp at all.

 

[DrKrFfXx]

Quote:

 
Just buy a Clip+ and ignore the Placebo Effectoids: the Clip will drive HD25s and even Fostex TR100s without an amp and without problems and it is tiny and cheap. The Momentums you want to drive are much easier targets.

 
I finally settled on the  Sony A865 for my Momentums.
 
Compared to my Xperia S, I can feel a bit different sound signature, with the A865 being a bit darker and thicker, maybe a bit too bassy for my tastes. There is more bass for sure, but it is a *better* quality bass also. Soundstage is a bit wider on the Walkman. I can't say it is a really upgrade in sound quality, they're about equal IHMO. Resolution wise they are about the same too, but the darker signature of the Walkman somewhat hides little details which are, on the other hand, obvious in the Xperia, like the  cymbals splashing and extending further, or the jaggy distortion of the electric guitars. Female voices sound more engaging on the Walkman though. And Bob Marley songs sound amazing too, maybe because of the emphasized bass. A feature called DSSE (Sound enhancement) brings the voices a bit more upfront and separated from the instruments, something I quite like, which is weird since I'm all against those "enhancements" BS. And after playing a bit with the EQ, I decided the "off" or flat is too much bass emphasized, so I lowered 1 notch on the bass side on the EQ.
 
I haven't decided if I like the A865 signature, I just gonna say it's different from what I was used to. I still have to go through my playlist.
 
Something that was bothering me, the volume cap on Sony devices, is not that so when using the Momentums, my normal listening volume is about 15-16 out of the 30 notches available. It doesn't go too loud, but loud enough for me.
 
Aside from the sound deparment, I like the size of the device, physical buttons for skipping and pausing is something I wasn't looking for, but I could put them to good use.  Menus are somewhat basic. Navigation and searching for specific songs can be a a bit of a pain since it lacks a keyboard of some sort. File transfer speed is a very normal 10MB/s. I haven't experimented enough yet to write an accurate review.