[olddude]

   
It is comments like this, that cause people to bash the PONO.  The difference between a properly encoded MP3 and 24/192 is simply not this great.

Without going all Sound Science, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

 
 
Had you said MP3 and 16/44 CD rip, well, that's a discussion (I still don't like MP3).  24/192 master and an MP3?  Nope, you are saying that a Master recording and an MP3 are virtually the same.  Enjoy your MP3, I'll enjoy my FLAC, and we'll agree to disagree.  

 

[flatmap]

  Well, I'm going down to a local Pono retailer today to pick one up to use on our summer travel. Also ordered some Oppo PM-3's to use with it along with my HD650's (may spring for the Moon balanced cable for the Sennheisers). It will be interesting to see how it compares to my full size rig. 

I'm pretty sure you'll want that balanced cable for the Sennheiser HD 650.  

 

[fiascogarcia]

   
It is comments like this, that cause people to bash the PONO.  The difference between a properly encoded MP3 and 24/192 is simply not this great.

Agreed. I've heard some very good MP3 recordings.  They are not all the same and certainly not all bad.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

 
The Oppo PM-3 will require some volume from the PONO to give you any bass extension. I was not big on the synergy between the 2. I sold them to a fellow headfi'er when the black weren't available. However that said I have been very happy with every other hp I have with the PONO

 
I tried the PM-3 with my Pono a couple weeks ago at a meet.  I was turning the volume way up on the Pono in an effort to get the PM-3 to come alive and they didn't.  I wonder if balanced mode would work better with the PM-3 even if on paper the extra power would seem to be unnecessary.  I didn't have a balanced cable for the PM-3 at the meet to be able to try balanced mode with them. On the other hand, that may just be the natural sound of the PM-3.  I didn't try it on any of the big amps that were at the meet.  I just tried it with portables.
 
The PM-3 also didn't do the 3D depth thing that I mentioned a couple pages back in this thread.  I played the tracks that should have done the 3D magic and that magic didn't happen.  I'm looking for headphones that do that magic with the PonoPlayer.  So the PM-3 got scratched off my list.  I still need to try the PM-2 or PM-1.  Or if I get a chance to try the PM-3 balanced with the Pono I'll give it another try.

 

[khollister]

 
I'm pretty sure you'll want that balanced cable for the Sennheiser HD 650.  

Yup. Got the firmware updated (finally - what a MCF) and some music loaded - thing sounds pretty damn good right out of the box with the HD650. The problem is volume - on many classical albums that are mastered lower in level, I don't have enough volume with the 650's.
 
Now the question is what cable?
 
A) get a matching Cardas to my single ended cable
B) Moon Audio blue (that is well liked around here)
C) something else

 

[Bones13]

To be sure that poorly mastered (compressed) music might sound bad in both MP3 and HiRez is understandable. There is/was "fake" HiRez for awhile there which was just upsampled redbook. HiRez continues to be a mixed bag of offerings, although improving steadily, with DSD looking promising.
 
The real question is, with a properly mastered song, with high dynamic range, can one tell a difference between MP3 and HiRez on equipment that allows that difference to be heard?
 
I have definatly listened to mainstream gear that does not allow the difference to be noticed by myself, I won't speak for others.
 
However, I have heard improvements in the SQ using better gear with HiRez over MP3 and redbook FLAC.  Not scientific, but we are talking about a personal experience.  The scientific data proves that more accurate information is presented to the amplifier/headphone part of the equation.
 
An example was a Norah Jones song I was listening to at Axpona with the closed back EL-8s using their server/DAC/AMP(a good one to be sure). I asked the guy if I could use my Pono on the headphones. Same artist, same song, HiRez vs FLAC. Definately more air, and nuance present in the music.  Different amp and dac for sure, theirs was desktop sized, and mine was a DAP probably the size of a few of the capacitors in their unit.
 
Again, I am not saying everyone would feel the same.  When you do hear the difference on the right system, you will understand.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

 
Yup. Got the firmware updated (finally - what a MCF) and some music loaded - thing sounds pretty damn good right out of the box with the HD650. The problem is volume - on many classical albums that are mastered lower in level, I don't have enough volume with the 650's.
 
Now the question is what cable?
 
A) get a matching Cardas to my single ended cable
B) Moon Audio blue (that is well liked around here)
C) something else

 
Cardas can do Pono style balanced connectors for the HD650.  The Senns are going to need balanced mode from the Pono.
 
The issue with the Senns is that the connector at the ear cups doesn't tolerate cables being swapped regularly.  The connection at the ear cups will get loose if you swap cables a lot.  So I'd suggest getting a good balanced Cardas cable for the Senns and an adapter to convert the balanced cable to single ended for use with your single-ended amps.
 
Or buy another HD600/HD650 and dedicate one to balanced use with the Pono and the other for single ended use with the home gear.

 

[khollister]

   
Cardas can do Pono style balanced connectors for the HD650.  The Senns are going to need balanced mode from the Pono.
 
The issue with the Senns is that the connector at the ear cups doesn't tolerate cables being swapped regularly.  The connection at the ear cups will get loose if you swap cables a lot.  So I'd suggest getting a good balanced Cardas cable for the Senns and an adapter to convert the balanced cable to single ended for use with your single-ended amps.
 
Or buy another HD600/HD650 and dedicate one to balanced use with the Pono and the other for single ended use with the home gear.

I'm planning on picking up a Taurus MK II this fall, so going balanced full time on the Senn's is not a problem. Im assuming there are decent mini-XLR to dual TRS adapters?

 

[Ham Sandwich]

 
I'm planning on picking up a Taurus MK II this fall, so going balanced full time on the Senn's is not a problem. Im assuming there are decent mini-XLR to dual TRS adapters?

 
The Auralic Taurus MK II is a neat amp.  
 
There are cables designed to be conveniently adaptable using adapters that aren't big and bulky.  For example, the ALO Green Line cable.  Other cable manufacturers are doing similar adaptable cables as well.

 

[willyvlyminck]

Without going all Sound Science, that's just, like, your opinion, man.  

Had you said MP3 and 16/44 CD rip, well, that's a discussion (I still don't like MP3).  24/192 master and an MP3?  Nope, you are saying that a Master recording and an MP3 are virtually the same.  Enjoy your MP3, I'll enjoy my FLAC, and we'll agree to disagree.  

with all respect for Neil Young, but 50 years in rockmusic didn't do his ears any favour so I doubt his ears are still good enough to hear the minimal differences between let us say his Pono and an Apple iPod Touch 5G. This said the music industry is always looking for new systems to boost sales, remember SACD and DVD- Audio, the problem however there is only a small audience prepared to invest money in new systems that might better the sound, but for the big consumer crowd the differences are not worth the extra money, so most stick to vinyl, cd and mp3.

 

[castleofargh]

 

   
It is comments like this, that cause people to bash the PONO.  The difference between a properly encoded MP3 and 24/192 is simply not this great.

Without going all Sound Science, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

 
 
Had you said MP3 and 16/44 CD rip, well, that's a discussion (I still don't like MP3).  24/192 master and an MP3?  Nope, you are saying that a Master recording and an MP3 are virtually the same.  Enjoy your MP3, I'll enjoy my FLAC, and we'll agree to disagree.  

where did he say that a master and the mp3 are virtually the same? he didn't. stop interpreting everything as you please. it annoys me a little when you do it with music, but it's just revolting when it's manipulating other people's posts.
 
something ok to say would be 24/192>mp3. it has no relation with pono, it is true measurably and will sometimes be audible, so the superiority can be agreed upon as being true.
  "mp3 is 5% of the music", do you have any idea what that might actually sound like? please. how desperate and/or ignorant does somebody need to be, to come up with such exaggerated nonsense? as mentioned by meat01, one of the reasons why Young and most pono marketing received so much hate are exactly those stuff. you can have him talk about that 5% nonsense on several of his TV interventions, so it's not just a small error slipping in by mistake once.
 
 
 
the only idea I can come up with to get that order of difference is thismaybe if someone has a more legitimate way to get 5% of ... whatever? you can post it)
 24/192 that's about 24*192000/4*60=69MB/m
mp3 goes 320000/8*60=2.4MB/m
so if 69 is 100%(why? it's not 100%, we can always do more) then 2.4MB is 3.47%  I'm not too far off and it's clearly the right order of magnitude. but it would read better as 5% of storage space instead of 5% of the music. else flac is 25 to 50% of the music ^_^.

 

[olddude]

 

  There was an interesting link over on the Pono Community site of a web interview with NY.  The best I heard there was his comment that, with MP3 compression you hear 5% of the music and with 24/192 you hear 100% of the music.  His question was, which would you prefer?  He also spoke of the new firmware, which will have "the Revealer, a built-in app which will take a hi-res file in the Pono and play it back at a variety of lower resolutions so that a listener can hear the difference(s) between them.  Before anyone comes on here and bashes, listen to what he says.  The Revealer is at about 10 minutes in.  The whole thing is interesting, especially when he discusses who can hear better sound and who can't.  "Good on you."  

  Enjoy.  
 
http://twit.tv/show/triangulation/199
 
BTW, I'm enjoying all of the posts of people who try the Pono thinking ehh, and then go wow when they actually hear it.  That was my response as well at Xmas and I certainly got beaten up a bunch for saying, WOW here in Head-Fi threads.  Looks like a lot of us are now in the wow camp.  And yes, if you try it in balanced mode, it's double wow.  No kidding.

 
I'm guessing a couple of folks here didn't actually watch the interview before posting.  See, that's sort of the point.  Listen to what the man says (oh, and listen to the equipment being discussed).  Certainly if you folks actually listened to a Pono you might have a different view.  Since you didn't, and this comes down, again, to an opinion (yeah, yeah, to you it's science but to everyone else it's an opinion) why not try a Pono with a CD-rip 16/44 (let alone something higher) BEFORE you come on a Pono site?  And, if you HAVE actually at least listened to a higher re file (though I'm fairly certain you haven't with a Pono) and can't tell the difference between it and an MP3, is that our problem or yours?  BTW, that was ALSO discussed in the interview.  Had you watched it.
 
 I can hear the difference between an iPod and a Pono, and I'm only a few years younger than NY (btw, had you actually watched the video you would have seen/heard him discuss this very point).  
 
Everyone at this site is constantly buying/trading/selling/buying more equipment, so how come a Pono not allowed in the club?  Why can't Pono say how good it is?  What is wrong with selling people something they will enjoy?  If they won't they don't have to buy it.  Advertising is just that.  
 
If people want to enjoy hi-res, why do you feel it so important to trumpet how worthless it is?  Do you stand outside the food store telling the folks buying gluten-free products that they are being duped?  Because science says the vast (VAST!) majority of them are. 
 
If MP3 is so good, why don't musicians record on it to begin with?  
 
Why is it so important to come to this site and tell us happy foo...er.... users of 16/44 and higher with our stu....er...waste-of-money Ponos that we are misguided?  
 
Why, lastly, do your knees jerk so much at the mere mention of something being better than MP3?  Let it go.  Have an ice cream.  Read a book.  Listen to some music.  Enjoy life.  

 

[ImperialBlade]

  Somebody posted this review earlier in the Z7 thread: http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-mdr-z7/
 
The reason I post it over here is this part:
We also tried the headphone with the $400 PonoPlayer, which has a balanced audio option (it has two outputs to plug into), and came away wondering why Pono didn't market the player to be used in this mode with a headphone like the MDR-Z7. The player sounds significantly better when used in balanced audio mode -- it plays louder, the bass is stronger and overall definition is improved.
 
And I can confirm that Z7 (which can also be found over here in the classifieds regularly) out of Pono in balanced mode just sounds superb!

Btw, the balanced cable ''Pono style'' is normally already included with the Z7 (and the same goes for the XBA-Z5)...

Hello Kerouac, or anyone else that know....
 
Any idea why I am seeing so many of the Sony MDR-Z7 on the sales section here? Am I missing somthing? If they sound so great why has there been so many sales of them?
For the record I am asking an honest question, as I really want some insight. Also for the record, I am not stirring the pot with my question.
 
Regards,
Eric

 

[olddude]

Sometimes the folks here buy the next best thing, try it, and find they don't like it (or at least not with their equipment, synergy-wise).  I was going to buy the T-Peos 300 iem and then noticed the same thing.  So I pm'd one or two of the sellers to ask why they were selling something that had just come out.  They told me what they thought and I passed.  You might try doing so, to get it from the horse's mouth.  And, should you do so, you will find out what they were using it with, which may help you as well.  This is one of the great things about this site: people who have something informing people who don't why they like it or don't.  

 

[Ham Sandwich]

   
 I can hear the difference between an iPod and a Pono, and I'm only a few years younger than NY (btw, had you actually watched the video you would have seen/heard him discuss this very point).  
 

 
The difference between the Pono and other players and other DACs is obvious if you use the right music and the right headphones.  The Pono is capable of doing a 3D depth thing.  But the proper effect requires using the right music and the right headphones.  Use the tracks that I mentioned in this post.  The Glory soundtrack is especially good for demonstrating this effect.  If you're able to hear the 3D effect the difference between the Pono and an iPhone or iPod will be obvious.  The Pono will have 3D.  The iDevice won't.
 
There are other ways to zero in on sonic differences between the Pono and other DACs or players.  But the 3D thing is the most obvious.  At least to me.
 
The Pono does the 3D thing through its line-out as well.  Use the Pono as a source to a setup like a Schiit Lyr and LCD-2.  Compare against the Pono as a DAC and a Bifrost or Modi as a DAC.  The Pono will give you the 3D.  The Bifrost/Modi won't.  It should be easy to hear the difference.  It is on my rig.