[JacobLee89]

 
But this is ridiculous, as I stated above. You guys aren't interested in understanding the math, and you're not interested in listening closely to the music. You just stick to the "perfect sound forever" dogma. Have fun.

 
Then answer my question you haven't.  Maths and calculations does not cover the entire spectrum of sound reproduction, especially with audio codecs and compression methods. I am very aware of the things you are speaking of, but I am just as curious as to how these scientifically sound equations and measurements would translate in software codecs and audio engineering, and how they would work around these distortions introduced by "compressing" these audio files into lower resolutions.

 

[Koukol]

I think the most important thing about Pono is the promise that what we get is identical to the master tapes.
If Pono is a success it will send a message that quality matters and hopefully Pono will have a standard of what they let in their catalog.
 
I have some great sounding CDs and a lot not so great mainly because of what they put on and not the bits.
 
 
BTW~being new to this DAP World (I don't own one yet) ...how does one take a SACD and put it on a DAP?
Does EXACT AUDIO COPY work with SACD?

 

[miceblue]

I think the most important thing about Pono is the promise that what we get is identical to the master tapes.
If Pono is a success it will send a message that quality matters and hopefully Pono will have a standard of what they let in their catalog.

I have some great sounding CDs and a lot not so great mainly because of what they put on and not the bits.


BTW~being new to this DAP World (I don't own one yet) ...how does one take a SACD and put it on a DAP?
Does EXACT AUDIO COPY work with SACD?

Ripping SACDs is no trivial task unfortunately. I don't know of any software that can rip DSD format except for the 1st generation PlayStation 3.

 

[Kokomo O]

   
Then answer my question you haven't.  Maths and calculations does not cover the entire spectrum of sound reproduction, especially with audio codecs and compression methods. I am very aware of the things you are speaking of, but I am just as curious as to how these scientifically sound equations and measurements would translate in software codecs and audio engineering, and how they would work around these distortions introduced by "compressing" these audio files into lower resolutions.

Jacob, if you asked a question, I'm not aware of it.
 
Indeed, maths and calculations DO cover the entire spectrum of sound reproduction, including audio codecs and compression methods. That's the whole point. And the point of what I've been trying to say is that when you run a transient pulse through a recording chain that has too narrow a bandwidth, you round the corners of that pulse, and you change the shape of some of those corners. What does that mean in terms of sound? It means that the recorded pulse no longer sounds like the original pulse. That's important because a piece of music is a whole bunch of transient pulses assembled together. It's not simple sine waves. And even though there's a limit, at 20kHz or little under, and in some of us a lot under, to the frequency of steady-state sine waves we can hear, we can still hear the rounding off and reshaping of those transient pulses, even when that rounding off and reshaping only represents loss of very high frequency tones, or phase shifts at high frequencies.
 
Compression is a very different issue and it's not really what we're talking about here. I'm frankly comfortable with the compression schemes like FLAC and ALAC that mathematicians call "perfect" codes and that have come to be called lossless in the vernacular. I don't hear a difference and neither does my son between these and uncompressed files. But MP3s are a different story, and they're called lossy for a reason. Just listen over good headphones. What's happening, in essence, is that the code is supposed to reassemble the signal from the compressed words, but it doesn't really have enough information to do so consistently, so it makes enough errors for you to hear.
 
I know some of these explanations seem loosy-goosy. I studied this stuff a long time ago. I understand it, but I'm not mathematician enough to explain it as well as I wish I could.

 

[Koukol]

Ripping SACDs is no trivial task unfortunately. I don't know of any software that can rip DSD format except for the 1st generation PlayStation 3.

Bummer!
Thx.
 
 
 
So...what are the risks in ordering one today?
Say if it doesn't explode like Neil predicts and the Pono downloading site fizzles we'll still be able to download from other sites, yes?

 

[daphen]

Yes, their website states that you can throw any of your downloaded files on their machine.

 

[Foolwolf]

Right,
Just learned that the PONO can be sideloaded, so I guess that you can load the card and the PONO itself via USB mass storage - just like on LINUX.
The store however will ONLY be available to US, UK  and Canada initially - great...
They will ship it themselves and they said on their website that the customs and clearance will apply.
 
So, I'm for PONOmusic.com to happen, seriously sounds great. But I'm out of the Kickstarter for a PONO. Will await the IBasso DX90 instead and wait for HD music to kick in a it more.

 

[Koukol]

. But I'm out of the Kickstarter for a PONO. Will await the IBasso DX90 instead and wait for HD music to kick in a it more.

Do mind if I ask why?
Is there any risk with Kickstarter?

 

[Foolwolf]

  Do mind if I ask why?
Is there any risk with Kickstarter?

I don't think that there is any risk with the kickstarter, but for me, the player will be rather expansive, won't offer that much benefit (as far as I have learned so far...) over other players. The cost of import to Sweden will make it a bit too expansive. Mostly though - the service won't be available to EU citizens on start - but these things with rtights etc can take time. We still don't officially sell Xbox One yet in Sweden... I just don't feel like hiking up that money for a service that I can't use. I'll stay with CD's and wait for it to come here and by then, there may be a new better player or the player has shown to be worth getting or just to skip it.

 

[severide]

  Do mind if I ask why?
Is there any risk with Kickstarter?

 
General info for kickstarter:
You will never be charged on your credit/debit card if the project does not meet the funding goal by the end date.
 
There are a few cases where the goal was met, but the project founder failed to deliver his/her promise which left a lot of people stranded and taking a financial hit. You shouldn't worry about this when it comes to PonoMusic though, since they seem to be a legitimate company with Neil Young's fame backing them up.
 
Just be careful when backing/supporting other kickstarter projects. Do your research.

 

[Koukol]

   
General info for kickstarter:
You will never be charged on your credit/debit card if the project does not meet the funding goal by the end date.
 
There are a few cases where the goal was met, but the project founder failed to deliver his/her promise which left a lot of people stranded and taking a financial hit. You shouldn't worry about this when it comes to PonoMusic though, since they seem to be a legitimate company with Neil Young's fame backing them up.
 
Just be careful when backing/supporting other kickstarter projects. Do your research.

thanks!

 

[kazsud]

The goal for pono was 800,000 it reached 4.8 million

 

[miceblue]

The goal for pono was 800,000 it reached 4.8 million

It still has 22 days to go. It will reach over 5 million.

 

[flatmap]

  I don't think that there is any risk with the kickstarter, but for me, the player will be rather expansive, won't offer that much benefit (as far as I have learned so far...) over other players. The cost of import to Sweden will make it a bit too expansive. Mostly though - the service won't be available to EU citizens on start - but these things with rtights etc can take time. We still don't officially sell Xbox One yet in Sweden... I just don't feel like hiking up that money for a service that I can't use. I'll stay with CD's and wait for it to come here and by then, there may be a new better player or the player has shown to be worth getting or just to skip it.

Makes sense.  Being in the US, and given this is a great price for Ayre technology, I wanted on board from the start.  
 
But people who wait for the reviews are going to be in the best situation to judge it against other options... such as the upcoming IBasso.

 

[phalanger]

I see a lot of criticism (not just here) about this device being 'too expensive', and I have a hard time seeing what thats based on. Compared to what exactly, is 300$ expensive for a 128gb DAP that plays hires music and comes with a top of the line DAC and (supposedly) quality audio components?
It is cheaper than any other hires DAP I know of. It is cheaper than iPod touch. 300$ is not exactly a lot of money for a high-quality audio device, let alone one that comes with 128gig memory and a touchscreen. 
 
I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy here but I just don't really understand the price as a point of criticism. In fact, I was very surprised to find out that this device is offered so CHEAP, for what it is/claims to be (a high-end audioplayer).
 
I'm still unsure whether I want one, but that is for other concerns (how user-friendly will the UI be, will it be good enough to connect to a proper hi-fi system, how good will the headphone-amp section be, why does the battery last so short and can't be replaced, is the shape too awkward to carry in pocket, will it really be as high-fidelity as it aims to be, do I really need a portable player when my phone does a fairly good job, and finally, will enough hires-worthy material be released through Pono store to make it useful).
 
All of the above are concerns seem reasonable, but writing it off for being too expensive I don't get that.