[tbabb]

I have the Senn HD-600 / MG Head OTL combo and want to try out vinyl. Anyone have a good starter Turntable/Preamp/Cartridge setup they can reccommend to me?

The Sumiko Project 1.2 / Phono Box looks appealing, but I'm not sure how well it would work with my setup?

Is the Creek OBH-8SE or 9SE a better route to go?

Thanks in advance...

 

[fredpb]

I have the HD600/OTL combo now. I use it a lot with vinyl.

The best buy for a turntable/cartridge combo, for $500, is the Music Hall MMF-5. The turntable is great (but use a stylus pressure guage) and the Goldring cartridge fabulous.

I use a ROTEL phono stage, about $200. Excellent.

The MMF5 comes with a cable to phono stage. I use a Straightwire Encore II interconnect from Rotel phono stage to my Acurus preamp. Right now, I use a Straightwire Chorus interconnect between Acurus main preamp and OTL. Cables do sound different. The Encore II is excellent, at $100 for 1 meter.
The Chorus is tolerable for now, until I can replace it. Audible difference between Chorus ($40) and Encore II ($100).
Good cheap cable is the Straightwire Symphony II at about $50.


The Sumiko Pro-Ject 1.2 is the same manufacturer of the MMF5.
For the price difference, you get an upgraded turntable and a much much better cartridge. MMF5 is the way to go. Only problem with it is the stylus pressure indicator on the tonearm (which may the the same tonearm as the 1.2) is not accurate. You MUST use a stylus pressure guage with these units.

Oh yes, a must, for me any way, is a vacuum powered record cleaning machine. Cheapest one is about $200.

 

[Hirsch]

The Pro-Ject 1.2 and the Music Hall MMF 2.1 are good starter tables. If you want to keep this inexpensive, you could get a Radio Shack battery powered phono preamp ($25). This is not a joke, at the price this phono amp is a steal. It's comparable to anything I've heard under $200.

 

[tbabb]

I should add that whlle cost is a concern, I would like a setup that can surpass what CD can offer.

I'm not sure how much I would have to spend to do this, but from other forums Ive read, it seems that a decent setup could do that.

I havn't heard SACD yet, but the lack of titles makes me shy away from getting hooked on it just yet.

Thanks for the good info, keep it coming.

 

[fredpb]

Hmmm....to surpass CD?

CD's vary in sound tremendously. SO DO RECORDS. Then you have the availability factor. There are still many outfits selling new records. Used? eBay has about 32,000 offered daily. Varying quality.

Regular CD's can sound very very good. Almost as good as a good LP. A top notch lp will outdo any CD. But the vast majority, at least 98%, of CD's stink. Yep, stink. It's not the medium, but the recording, mastering...everything before the physical creation of the CD. Many producers or recording engineers seem to have hearing problems, or just don't care about good sound. Then again, most listeners have yech systems, and don't know the difference.

For instance, Telarc. I have the some albums both on CD and LP. Same exact recordings. The LP's are killer, but the CD's are shockingly dismal. I can make a better CD by recording the vinyl onto my Pioneer CD recorder!

I have many yech records too. Depends on the individual recording. LP is no guarantee of sound quality.

Of course equipment matters.

Getting into vinyl is not for the financially challanged. Good turntable with cartridge: $500. Phono stage: $200. Record cleaning machine: $200. Decent interconnect: $100. That's $1000. Can get a GOOD cd unit for $500, and a lot of CD's for $500.

 

[tbabb]

Fred,

All your points well taken. You told me what I needed to know, that a LP recording *can* sound better than the CD counterpart.

You make some valid points which brings me to another question. How hard is it to find LP material that is "killer" quality? Would you say that 98% of LP's stink too?

What methods are audiophiles using to find these top pressings?

I think I need to visit the local high-end audio shop and listen to some music I know well so I can let my ears decide on a turntable setup.

Gosh, it's been about 16 years since I listened to an LP.

Thanks for all your feedback guys.

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by tbabb Fred, You make some valid points which brings me to another question. How hard is it to find LP material that is "killer" quality? Would you say that 98% of LP's stink too? What methods are audiophiles using to find these top pressings? Gosh, it's been about 16 years since I listened to an LP. Thanks for all your feedback guys.

I listen mainly to classical music. There are a lot of stinkers.
Two way to compare "crummy" LP's: 1)against other LP's; 2) Against CD's.

1)LP's vary greatly in quality. You have to go by brand, for me anyway. I know a London FFRR will sound much better than a Turnabout, generally speaking. You would think "digital" LP's would suffer from modern technology. Most digitally recorded LP's are pretty nice. I would say the crummy LP rate is about 70%, better than the CD rate. But LP's suffer from physical problems, like noise, etc. A record cleaning machine won't fix damaged vinyl.

2)LP's that are in good shape I prefer to most CD's. I was away from LP's for many many years. When CD's came out, I switched to them. Then I got my "almost high end setup". I received a Rotel phono stage for a present. WOW! The old Technics turntable and Audio Tecknica cartridge did sound much better. Then I invested in the Music Hall MMF5 turntable...BOOOOMMM. The new sound was very very obvious. That was it. I have added many hundreds of records to my collection in the last year.
And discovered my old stuff.

You also have record and stylus care to think about. I started using "Last" brand stylus cleaner. My stylus did not like it, and the damping went bad in less than three weeks using that stuff.
$80 needle down the drain. Had a spare though.

You can get new lp's easily, by the hundreds, if you search the net. Not cheap though. But audiophile CD's are not cheap either.
I gamble on EBAY a lot. I have received very few junkers, and am very selective whom I buy from. I have some regular sellers I get stuff from. I have gotten great albums for $1, and got outbid on some I wanted when they went over $25 each.

Classical LP's are usually better cared for than rock or other stuff.
If you prefer a music type other than classical, you might consider a nicer CD setup. I am an old fart, so I am used to hiss and clicks and pops...I grew up with them. Younger people may not have the tolerance for record noise.

Then there is the matter of making copies of stuff and special compilations. What will you use? Cassettes? Minidiscs? CD recorder? Records wear out. The records I listen to the most I recorded to CD. A serious listen gets the LP. General listening gets the CD. Minidiscs do NOT do LP's justice. Sorry MD fans.

LP's are no guarantee of sound quality. Good gear IS. I would make sure you have a good CD system before you blow big bucks on LP.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

I started using "Last" brand stylus cleaner. My stylus did not like it, and the damping went bad in less than three weeks using that stuff.

Fred,

I am a vinyl enthusiast as well (Rega P3 TT/Benz Glider cartridge) and I have used Last stylus cleaner without problems for quite some time. How did you deduce that the product was responsible for the damage? Just curious...and concerned!

 

[Hardhead]

Quote:

I am an old fart, so I am used to hiss and clicks and pops...

I'm there with you Fred. While an occasional pop or click is acceptable, if the record is really bad I find that I can simply not listen to it. Can you say skeet shoot?

Vinyl can sound more dramatic, more live than CDs but the recording of either format is the most important factor.

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by RickG Fred, I am a vinyl enthusiast as well (Rega P3 TT/Benz Glider cartridge) and I have used Last stylus cleaner without problems for quite some time. How did you deduce that the product was responsible for the damage? Just curious...and concerned!

I check my stylus regularly with a stylus microscope. Wear was nil. Everything was fine until I started using the Last stuff. I need glasses to read, but am lazy, so would just slop the cleaner on the stylus, probably getting into the damping material. The sound changed very quickly, in a matter of weeks. The only way I could tell was to try my spare stylus, which made a world of difference. The sound made the difference. The microscope checked out fine. I was very very irritated. At myself. I had read reports on the usenet database that a few others also had problems like this. My fault for getting the stuff. I don't think it effects all material suspensions, just certain brands. And it has to be applied carefully.

I am no expert, I could be wrong. But I have been using stereo stuff for over 30 years. Never happened before.

 

[RickG]

Thanks for the information, Fred. I'm going to reconsider using this stuff, period!