[Snurry]

Hey there,
I recently got a new phone (iPhone X) and am looking for the right headphones to suit both the phone but also for use with an iMac since I am at home a lot.
The headphones I am seriously considering are the B&W PX's, both for sound quality and because they support AAC which is what Apple Music streams; so the audio wouldn't suffer further compression.
One thing to note is I really enjoy a wide sound especially for live audio since it's so immersive.
Also, I would consider in-ears like iSine if the audio quality is noticeably better.
I have a few questions though...

1. Can I play audio through a USB-C to lightning cable on the PX's and would that make any difference from using the 3.5mm to lightning jack? Also would it support lossless quality?
2. Would I even notice much, if any difference between an AAC (mastered/unmastered) and lossless on the PX's, both wired or wireless?
3. Is there any better headphones for iPhone X, either wired or wireless?
4. Is there any better headphones for iMac, either wired or wireless?
5. Will the iPhone even output lossless quality? I read somewhere that although it supports lossless, the output through the DAC is CD quality at best.
6. What streaming service would be best (e.g. Spotify)? I am thinking Apple Music since it streams AAC and the iPhone doesn't support aptX.

Basically what I'm looking for is to get the best quality sound out of the iPhone X, but also the iMac; preference to the iPhone. Although I prefer wireless and would love the option ideally for both, I would consider wired if the sound quality is that much better.

Thanks

 

[Dulalala]

Can I play audio through a USB-C to lightning cable on the PX's and would that make any difference from using the 3.5mm to lightning jack? Also would it support lossless quality?

If you mean using the digital output (CCK) on the iPhone to send to the PX, yes you can. A digital out is a digital out, as long as it's not messing with the data there is no way it can suddenly turn into a lossy format.

Would I even notice much, if any difference between an AAC (mastered/unmastered) and lossless on the PX's, both wired or wireless?

Debatable. Too many variables at play to give a sufficient answer.

Is there any better headphones for iPhone X, either wired or wireless?

What does your phone have to do with headphone compatability?

Will the iPhone even output lossless quality? I read somewhere that although it supports lossless, the output through the DAC is CD quality at best.

iPhone supports ALAC and FLAC if you're talking about lossless compression formats. Both ALAC and FLAC is CD quality so I'm not sure what you mean.

What streaming service would be best (e.g. Spotify)? I am thinking Apple Music since it streams AAC and the iPhone doesn't support aptX.

Even if it did support aptX, why would that make Spotify better? Just choose your streaming service based on whichever one has the most appealing feature for you.

 

[buke9]

Don’t know the B&W so can’t say. Just going off the sound quality of the HD-1 wireless versus wired and I would prefer wired myself. Not that the wireless is bad just not as good as wired in my opinion. This is just a convenience issue. At work I listen to a pair of KZ ATE’s and am totally fine as I can screw them up and I’m only out $12 plus they sound pretty good for the money. If you are looking for what sounds better then wired is the way in my opinion. Is wireless bad no just not as good yet.

 

[Snurry]

Sorry, as much as I love some music, I am not versed in the technical side so please bear with me.

If you mean using the digital output (CCK) on the iPhone to send to the PX, yes you can. A digital out is a digital out, as long as it's not messing with the data there is no way it can suddenly turn into a lossy format.

The reason I ask is because I read this on B&W's site, "PX headphones can also play audio via a USB connection from a computer" which makes me think it either isn't available on iPhone or needs some added support like a power bank.
Please elaborate on what you mean by the iPhone's digital output (CCK). This means using the USB-C to USB cable supplied with the PX and Apple's Camera Connection Kit which is a USB to Lightning adapter.The USB-C to lightning CABLE would provide the same outcome, right?

Debatable. Too many variables at play to give a sufficient answer.

What kind of info would you need to be able to give me a bit of an idea?
I don't have any hearing loss (had it tested recently) and assuming both files would be listened to through the PX.
I figured there would be a difference between bluetooth (only AAC support for iPhone as far as I know), wired by usb-c to lightning cable/CCK, and wired by 3.5mm cable to apple's 3.5mm to lightning jack.

What does your phone have to do with headphone compatability?

I didn't mean compatibility; I meant is there any better sound quality headphones that would suit the iPhone (i.e. bluetooth AAC and wired). I don't know much about DAC's but I get the impression that they are only for wired connections and not all are built the same, with some being of better quality.

iPhone supports ALAC and FLAC if you're talking about lossless compression formats. Both ALAC and FLAC is CD quality so I'm not sure what you mean.

Well I thought I read somewhere that iPhone during playback was outputting less quality than than the lossless file, but I can't find the article now... Something along the lines of was outputting 16bit even if the file is 24bit. I'm probably totally wrong though.

Even if it did support aptX, why would that make Spotify better? Just choose your streaming service based on whichever one has the most appealing feature for you.

I was just using Spotify as an example; I was asking which streaming service provides the highest quality streaming audio. I figure even if one of them does support hi-res files it would only be taken advantage of with a wired setup, so Apple Music would be best for the PX through bluetooth since it can stream directly the AAC files with out transcoding and recompressing the streamed file. Where as Spotify 320kbps MP3's would be re-encoded through the SBC codec used in bluetooth mode?

 

[Dulalala]

"PX headphones can also play audio via a USB connection from a computer" which makes me think it either isn't available on iPhone or needs some added support like a power bank.

The PX uses USB, which is basically what lightning is, but in a proprietary plug. Also, just like USB, lightning allows device to draw power from it.

The USB-C to lightning CABLE would provide the same outcome, right?

So long as the PX doesn't need drivers, which is very likely, it will provide the same outcome.

I didn't mean compatibility; I meant is there any better sound quality headphones that would suit the iPhone (i.e. bluetooth AAC and wired). I don't know much about DAC's but I get the impression that they are only for wired connections and not all are built the same, with some being of better quality.

Well generally, you'd get better results from wired headphones. A wireless headphones has to cram all sorts of different circuitry inside of its chasis so compromises have to be made.

When it comes to DAC quality, to be quite honest, the iPhone stock adapter measures pretty well. I'd say only issue with it is the power output. If you want to go the external DAC route, you can stick to the iPhone stock adapter. If you have some extra cash to blow, then maybe you can consider an external DAC/Amp.

Well I thought I read somewhere that iPhone during playback was outputting less quality than than the lossless file, but I can't find the article now... Something along the lines of was outputting 16bit even if the file is 24bit. I'm probably totally wrong though.

That's the first I've heard of that.

I was just using Spotify as an example; I was asking which streaming service provides the highest quality streaming audio. I figure even if one of them does support hi-res files it would only be taken advantage of with a wired setup, so Apple Music would be best for the PX through bluetooth since it can stream directly the AAC files with out transcoding and recompressing the streamed file.

Apple Music is the better choice if you want to prevent recompression, however, having AAC Bluetooth support doesn't mean anything if the headphone itself doesn't support Bluetooth AAC codec. It'll automatically just revert back to SBC. It's very hard to find a headphone that has AAC support to be quite honest. As far as I'm aware, the PX doesn't support AAC codec.

 

[Snurry]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

pple Music is the better choice if you want to prevent recompression, however, having AAC Bluetooth support doesn't mean anything if the headphone itself doesn't support Bluetooth AAC codec. It'll automatically just revert back to SBC. It's very hard to find a headphone that has AAC support to be quite honest. As far as I'm aware, the PX doesn't support AAC codec.

I'm pretty sure it does support AAC codec; that's the main reason I'm considering it over other headphones.
Bluetooth Codecs:
aptx-HD
AAC
SBC

Source: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Downloads/Product/Support/PX/PX-manual.pdf

When it comes to DAC quality, to be quite honest, the iPhone stock adapter measures pretty well. I'd say only issue with it is the power output. If you want to go the external DAC route, you can stick to the iPhone stock adapter. If you have some extra cash to blow, then maybe you can consider an external DAC/Amp.

You say 'the iPhone stock adapter measures pretty well.', but also 'If you want to go the external DAC route, you can stick to the iPhone stock adapter.'
In the first instance are you referring to an internal 'stock adapter'? Cause I don't understand the difference since the terminology is the same.
I don't think I'll need a paid external DAC/amp, at least not yet.
I still don't understand the difference between the Apple CCK adapter and a USB-C to lightning cable. Is there something special about using the included USB-C to USB cable with a CCK adapter over a single USB-C to lightning cable?

Although I couldn't find that article I was talking about, I did just find this post:
"One needs to bypass the internal DAC of the iDevice, which is limited to 16 bit 44.1kHz. Use an external DAC and the iDevice will pass the high res files right through!"
Source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audiophile-ios-audio-player.699741/#post-10382138

 

[Dulalala]

I'm pretty sure it does support AAC code

Ah you're right, my bad.

 

[Dulalala]

You say 'the iPhone stock adapter measures pretty well.', but also 'If you want to go the external DAC route, you can stick to the iPhone stock adapter.'
In the first instance are you referring to an internal 'stock adapter'? Cause I don't understand the difference since the terminology is the same.
I don't think I'll need a paid external DAC/amp, at least not yet.
I still don't understand the difference between the Apple CCK adapter and a USB-C to lightning cable. Is there something special about using the included USB-C to USB cable with a CCK adapter over a single USB-C to lightning cable?

The CCK has a USB A female on it. That's about it. They have the same function. I think it's just Apple's legacy naming scheme from back in the days when most people only used it to transfer files from their camera.

Although I couldn't find that article I was talking about, I did just find this post:
"One needs to bypass the internal DAC of the iDevice, which is limited to 16 bit 44.1kHz. Use an external DAC and the iDevice will pass the high res files right through!"
Source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audiophile-ios-audio-player.699741/#post-10382138

The article in the post is 4 years old. Software and hardware change over time, but quite honestly, I wouldn't worry about it anyways. 24 bits is pretty useless in consumer audio. I'm getting a bit off topic here, if you want to know more I can send you some links via PM.