[SP Wild]

I just realised that HDtracks refusal to download to Australia for whatever draconian copyright fears they hold....has caused piracy.  Idiots...bloody idiots, no more and no less.  What - like I can't afford to pay for music...I can afford the audiophillia - I can afford the audiophilia related content.
 
I just feel sorry for the artists - I should post 10 bucks to them directly...it's more cut than the labels will ever give them.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

You're right, there is a gray area.

The approach I take is not to even enter into the gray area. I try to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. All my music is from discs that I actually own. Buying used is completely legal, so that is what I mostly do. Piracy, for better or worse, has killed the used market. Used CDs are dead cheap today, so I take advantage of the prices. I only rip CDs I own. I occasionally download music from archive.org, but everything there is in the public domain.

It's important to me to be entirely clean in this area. I don't like Big Music and think their business model has completely failed. However, I do not want them pointing to me as the reason they failed.

I wish more people would take this approach. Big Music whines about piracy as the reason their business model is failing. If everyone bought used, they wouldn't have that lame excuse.

I am a firm believer in the fact that the availability of the used CD market has done more to kill sales than piracy.
 

 

[revolink24]

Heh. If it's done by Big Music/part of the RIAA I buy it used. If it isn't, I'll buy it new.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

I am a firm believer in the fact that the availability of the used CD market has done more to kill sales than piracy.
 

Bull.  If someone wants an old recording and they find it used, fantastic.  Otherwise it's probably easier to download it...which brings us to the biggest killer of CD sales.
 
Thats exactly the same as saying the used car market kills new car sales.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Interesting topic.  I don't recall this level of hand-wringing when I was making (and receiving) mix-tapes 25 years ago.  The ease of digital distribution changes the game.  A librarian friend says this is a hot topic in her field - a lot of folks are using their local libraries to build their music collections.  Those discs have been purchased - but what are the the license rights of the purchaser?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

I am a firm believer in the fact that the availability of the used CD market has done more to kill sales than piracy.
 

I disagree. Some will always want to buy new and you see them (paying far too much IMO) in the city centre HMV and Virgin stores. Then, you can get new at a better price on line and from fringe shops such as the superb Fopp. Lastly, there are the second hand shops, ebay and Amazon marketplace.
 
Downloads do not have a second hand value, which is a reason why I think that piracy took off. If you could buy a cheap second hand download, you would have the same market as with CDs, where the second hand CDs often go side by side with the new ones.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Interesting topic.  I don't recall this level of hand-wringing when I was making (and receiving) mix-tapes 25 years ago.  The ease of digital distribution changes the game.  A librarian friend says this is a hot topic in her field - a lot of folks are using their local libraries to build their music collections.  Those discs have been purchased - but what are the the license rights of the purchaser?

The library borrower is an interesting one. You have a limited loan ownership where through Performing Rights money goes back to the artist, but by importing the music onto your PC, you are making it permanent, which is not what borrowing is about.

 

[SP Wild]

Piracy in other words.  Same as renting a DVD and copying it. 
 
With hackers able to remove digital protection, I'm afraid the only true way to reduce piracy is to lower the selling price of CDs.  In Australia, we have the JB Hi-Fi chain that sells DVDs and music CDs from 10 bucks - and they're proper top 40, blockbuster releases - loads of selections....I see little value in piracy when the genuine costs so little.  Should check out these stores, always loads of people purchasing DVDs and CDs.  I honestly have never seen CD or DVD sales so rampant.  I remember the days before downloads, CDs were rarely if ever under 30 bucks.  There were less volume in those stores as well back then.
 
So basically 100 bucks got you three measly CDs back then.  Now it's easy to pick up 10 genuine CDs for the same price........all thanks to downloads - I think everybody is happier, including producers - having never sold VHS cassettes or CD/tapes at that rate ever in the past.........of course this brings us into the second issue of crappy hollywood blockbuster - all cheaply CGI rendered, backed by a massive marketing push - eventually leading to DVD sales.
 
Don't go believing the producers are suffering, they've never had it better.  Thanks to pirate competition - they stopped ripping us off badly, then we reward them via mass consumption.
 
What, you think I make this crap up?

 

[Uncle Erik]

I am a firm believer in the fact that the availability of the used CD market has done more to kill sales than piracy.
 

The used market does hurt sales, but I think piracy has done more to hurt them. This is because used prices used to be fairly stable. These days, I'm finding used CDs in the $1-$4 range. Sometimes I can swing a deal at the swapmeet for a box of discs on the cheap. I think piracy has destroyed the market for used CDs, they're only marginally more than used LPs.

I'll give some credit to iTunes and other paid download services, too. A lot of people are buying those and ignoring used discs.

I am absolutely taking advantage of this. I'm hoping to boost the collection to 4,000-5,000 discs, since they can be ripped to a server and I'll put the discs into storage as backups.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Bull.  If someone wants an old recording and they find it used, fantastic.  Otherwise it's probably easier to download it...which brings us to the biggest killer of CD sales.
 
Thats exactly the same as saying the used car market kills new car sales.

If none were available used you would have to buy new or go without.
You are welcome to your opinions,bull and all.

 

[SP Wild]

Some information record labels do not promote:
 
http://www.aria.com.au/documents/ARIAreleases2009wholesalesalefigures.pdf
 
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/27/1043534002352.html
 
http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html
 
These seem to back up my real world observations.  Its incredible...in Australia, that there are far fewer CD retailers than ten years ago - because JB Hi-Fi has done a good job of eradicating its primary competition - and yet CD sales have grown in those years.  Less outlets to purchase CDs, record labels producing fewer releases, GFC - and yet they're raking it in as always.
 
Blaming piracy is ridiculous - people work, they spend their hard earned cash - this is capitalism.  Mass consumption ensures profits for many years.  Its like saying Yes I am a billionaire but I could be more of a billionaire if absolutely everything went my way.  Get over it.
 
P.S.  I do not condone piracy, nor do I partake in pirated CDs.  All my CDs are genuine and in the past few years all costed 10 bucks from JB Hi-Fi.  And HDtracks suck for not allowing Aussies to download their largest collection of Hi-Res material on the net...but hey, I'm open minded...I want my music quality at any cost - I pay any price, legal or not.

 

[chesebert]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/first-sale-doctrine/
 
This 9th Cir. decision should probably kill the used CD market in about 2 years for the recently released CDs (depending on how fast RIAA moves to sue people who resells CDs).  It will probably go something like "STOP. By breaking this seal, you are agreeing to blah blah blah  blah . . . . may not sell, transfer, exchange, alienate or otherwise dispose of such CD/SACD/DVD-A without the prior written consent of your neighborhood Big Music, the consent of which may be withheld for any reason or no reason at all . . blah blah blah. . . Enjoy the music!"
 
Bye bye used CD market.

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/first-sale-doctrine/
 
This 9th Cir. decision should probably kill the used CD market in about 2 years for the recently released CDs (depending on how fast RIAA moves to sue people who resells CDs).  It will probably go something like "STOP. By breaking this seal, you are agreeing to blah blah blah  blah . . . . may not sell, transfer, exchange, alienate or otherwise dispose of such CD/SACD/DVD-A without the prior written consent of your neighborhood Big Music, the consent of which may be withheld for any reason or no reason at all . . blah blah blah. . . Enjoy the music!"
 
Bye bye used CD market.

 
I loved how the article brought up the issue of selling used books.  I wonder...if I were to write down the contents of a book in my scrap book and then sell the book on the used market....am I pirating the book?  Even if the jotted down words never leave my sole possession.  How different is this to buying a CD, ripping it and then selling it? (not that I have or ever will do this)
 
I really couldn't car less if my best friend was doing these exact activities.  I would neither condone, condemn nor judge a man on these actions alone.  Would the publisher prefer my friend to have never bought the material at all?
 
I think artists should be extraordinarily grateful that copyright laws exist at all in modern societies. (such laws do not exist for most of the worlds population)
 

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

If none were available used you would have to buy new or go without.
You are welcome to your opinions,bull and all.

When you wait for a year to find a copy of Ayla's Nirwana that isn't 100$ used, you can say pirating is easier. Yeah, 100$ for a used CD. It's probably a 7/10 but it's a big part of my growing up, I have to own a copy.

 

[basementdweller]

 
Quote:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/first-sale-doctrine/
 
This 9th Cir. decision should probably kill the used CD market in about 2 years for the recently released CDs (depending on how fast RIAA moves to sue people who resells CDs).  It will probably go something like "STOP. By breaking this seal, you are agreeing to blah blah blah  blah . . . . may not sell, transfer, exchange, alienate or otherwise dispose of such CD/SACD/DVD-A without the prior written consent of your neighborhood Big Music, the consent of which may be withheld for any reason or no reason at all . . blah blah blah. . . Enjoy the music!"
 
Bye bye used CD market.

Interesting.  I don't pirate.  The only rips on my computer, that I no longer own discs for, are remnants from destroyed or stolen discs; I don't feel inclined to delete these files simply because someone saw fit to break my windows and take what they wanted.  I've strayed off topic.  Okay, keeping in mind that I don't agree with piracy, the decision you posted actually kind of pisses me off at Big Music.  Other than the soon to be disclaimer on the discs' packaging material, this is akin to telling people they cannot resell used furniture because the department store you originally bought it from is loosing out on a new purchase.  Are we to further abuse landfills because General Electric wants a cut when I upgrade my washing machine?
 
Back to the original post, and a dirt simple answer to boot:  If you have to think about it then you are probably in the wrong.  I mean, nobody that downloads music from itunes wonders if the police are going to be knocking on their door in the morning.