Pimeta power adapter question
Aug 14, 2006 at 8:36 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

catsoup

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I built a pretty standard portable pimeta last year, running off two 9v batts, but i never got around to making a power adapter for the wall.

What exactly do i need to do to make it plug into the wall. charging the batteries is unnecessary , but would be cool. so is it a matter of just adding a jack in parallel with the battery and getting the correct wall adapter?

thanks.

edit; the two batteries are in series,running theoretically 18v.
 
Aug 14, 2006 at 10:24 PM Post #5 of 15
hmm, that looks good, but is there an option for one that i can leave plugged in at all times that bypasses the batteries?

as in, one that powers the amp, but doesnt charge the batteries. i could just take the batteries out? or switch between battery and wall power.
 
Aug 14, 2006 at 10:42 PM Post #6 of 15
All you need is a SPST toggle switch between the wall supply and the battery. If you do that, you might want to rig up a separate LED that indicates the battery is charging. Otherwise you may end up with flat batteries that you thought you just charged.
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 2:53 AM Post #7 of 15
I'm biased, but this thread is the latest and greatest:
Trickle Chargers (for PIMETA's)

I think Tangent (or someone) has remarked that you could leave the power supply connected for months with little harm to the batteries. Frankly, that's the whole point of a "trickle" charger - the current is small enough that even though charging is taking place, it's not enough to worry about ever having to disconnect it.

The thread above explains how to build one that also lets you power the amp from the wall supply (linear-regulated preferred) whenever connected, and it is always charging, too.
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 3:13 AM Post #8 of 15
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
I'm biased, but this thread is the latest and greatest:
Trickle Chargers (for PIMETA's)

I think Tangent (or someone) has remarked that you could leave the power supply connected for months with little harm to the batteries. Frankly, that's the whole point of a "trickle" charger - the current is small enough that even though charging is taking place, it's not enough to worry about ever having to disconnect it.

The thread above explains how to build one that also lets you power the amp from the wall supply (linear-regulated preferred) whenever connected, and it is always charging, too.



One thing to keep in mind is that I think the term "trickle charge" is misused here. I think a true trickle charger would put out about 0.05C, or maybe a bit less, where a "slow charger" puts out 0.1C and a fast charger 0.3-1C.

I'm not saying that 0.1C will hurt the battery but I don't think that charge level is universally defined as a "trickle charge", at least in the research I have done.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 11:38 AM Post #10 of 15
The second one is the same as the first - only with more step-by-step construction detail and a more refined circuit. The LM317 has been changed to the TO-92 version, which is plenty capable of the milliamps it needs to supply and is much smaller. One of the diodes has also been removed.

Both of these things allow the charger to be built small enough to easily fit between two batteries with the PIMETA in a Hammond 1455J1201 case.

Jameco also has an excellent linear-regulated 24VDC walwart:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/sto...oductId=174879

As for trickle vs. slow charge, I can't get into the official calcs for "C". With a 100ohm resistor and the walwart above, this thing will put out about 12ma. With the 250mah batteries I use, that's over 20 hours to re-charge, which pretty much seems like a trickle in my book.
wink.gif
(Note that Neil's reference defines "Slow-Charge" as "Charge time is 14-16 hours." This exceeds that time.)

Aside:
Neil has a good case for another diode if you happen to have a power supply with an LED. If you disconnect the wall supply, but don't disconnect it from the amp, it is possible that the batteries can backfeed into the walwart's LED. I think that's a fairly isolated case - unplugging the walwart without disconnecting it from the amp seems awkward. Also, walwarts are not that common with LED's anymore - it's more applicable if you've built a TREAD or STEPS.
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 2:16 PM Post #11 of 15
Tomb,

I think most people will find a 20 hour charge a bit slow. Plus, the charger is not 100% efficient (if it were there would be absolutely no heat on the battaries), so your charge time is more like 25 hours. A 50 ohm resistor would give you 0.1C, which is what I assumed you were doing.

If you read the link I supplied above, you might come to the conclusion that .05C is too slow to properly charge the batteries. On the other hand, they are primarily talking about AA and AAA battereis, not 9V batteries, which are usually recomended to be charged at 0.1C. There's a lot of voodoo here- even more than the voodoo surrounding audio caps.

I do use a Tread for my recharging. The primary reason I have a problem with the 2 diode design is that there is no way to ascertain that the Tread is plugged in. The LED will be lit either way and will give you the "wrong answer" if you want to make sure the charger is powered up. I think that will lead to problems and confusion. I don't know about you, but I tend to have rats nests of ac wires and it's easy to have something accidentally unplugged. With a wall wart, I guess that is a moot point.

My portable Pimeta does not have a separate onboard charger LED and I am always uncertain if the thing is actually charging. Some of my DC-DC cables use Kobiconn locking plugs, but some of my Treads do not have the matching locking jacks. Although the Kobiconn locking and non-locking jacks and plugws are compatible with each other, the barrel is a bit short on the locking versions and it is very easy to lose power and not know it because the plug has to be absoutely fully inserted to make the connection. When I built my Pint I added a 2nd LED that only comes on if the wall supply is live, giving me positive verification that the thing is really charging.

If your 9V batteries are rated at 250ma then I suspect you have 7 cell batteries with a nominal voltage of 8.4V. If you use an 8 cell battery, then 24V is a bit low and you might not get a full charge. This is an important point for others and anyone using a 24V regulated supply with your charger circuit needs to consider this. The standard formula is 1.55V per cell plus the Vdrop across the regulator, plus any diodes between the wall supply and the battery. For 14 cells, as you probably use, that works out to 23.7V, allowing for a 2V drop across the LM317. Your regulator, wall supply and batteries put you right on the edge, with 0.3V of overhead.

Fixing my problem by adding a diode between the regulator and the jack could cause problems here. On the other hand, my problem is a bigger issue with a Tread or Steps and in that case it's easy to jack up the voltage a bit to compensate. I use 25.6V with my Pimeta, but I use a resistor instead of the LM317. If I used an LM317 I would have to bump that up to 27.5V to allow for the reg and my 3rd diode.

Although I like using an adjustable Tread to tweak the voltage, and that is a requirement, more or less, for resistor based charging, I didn't know that I could get a regulated wart for $14. Aside from the voltage issues, that is a much more portable solution, especially for travel.

It's amazing how complicated this can be!
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 5:36 PM Post #13 of 15
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
Complicated? It sounds good and the batteries last a night or two with complete charging. That's down to my level.
wink.gif



I don't know if it was by accident or design but you seemed to thread the needle successfuly
lambda.gif


I have run into another issue, which is the max V+ you can put on the opamp rails. I use AD86x0's for many of my builds because the current draw is low and I like the sound, but they have a max specified V+ of 26V and an absolute max of 27V, as I recall, and that is perilously close to the voltage needed for 2 8-cell 9V batts, depending mainly on the diode drops and whatever rail isolation parts are in the amp. That is one reason I went with resistor based charging. All just to say that there are a lot of considerations, depending on the configuration.
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 7:17 PM Post #14 of 15
Yes, I agree Neil - things can get tricky with the AD8620/8610 family, especially if you're using a TREAD-based power supply. Typically, you want to set it at 27VDC - which seems to be the happy optimum for most designs (M3, Millett, etc.). Still, I would say the AD8620/8610 is worth the trouble - there is a great mix of good bass + detailed highs that exist in that chip family.

On the other hand, I was surprised to see that this combo of 8.4V 250mah NiMH's are so well matched with the PIMETA and my KSC75's - using the 8066/8065 - that the LED begins to flicker right at the point of depleted clipping. That's more a function of the rail-to-rail capability of the 8066/8065, probably - but it's still kind of cool to see it work without the Zener, etc.
 
Aug 15, 2006 at 9:11 PM Post #15 of 15
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
Yes, I agree Neil - things can get tricky with the AD8620/8610 family, especially if you're using a TREAD-based power supply. Typically, you want to set it at 27VDC - which seems to be the happy optimum for most designs (M3, Millett, etc.). Still, I would say the AD8620/8610 is worth the trouble - there is a great mix of good bass + detailed highs that exist in that chip family.

On the other hand, I was surprised to see that this combo of 8.4V 250mah NiMH's are so well matched with the PIMETA and my KSC75's - using the 8066/8065 - that the LED begins to flicker right at the point of depleted clipping. That's more a function of the rail-to-rail capability of the 8066/8065, probably - but it's still kind of cool to see it work without the Zener, etc.



I've been wanting to try the 806x chips but the last time I placed an order they were out of stock. Glad to hear they worked out well in a Pimeta.
 

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