[dazzer1975]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif My agenda is clear - I review gear because I have, mostly, enjoyed it. And I will continue to do so as long as this site allows, since I do it purely for the fun of the hobby.

Not strictly true, you refused offers of reviewing amps because the manufacturer isnt interested in sending you one to review.

While I have enjoyed thoroughly reading through your behemoth of a review thread, and of course there is nothing inherently off colour or jaundiced about accepting amps to review from the manufacturer, the statements I read from you totally disbarring the chance of reveiwing amps (even when offered to be sent them from members) because the manufacturer won't send you one does paint a slightly different picture than being in it purely for the fun of the hobby and left a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif So there you go, tyrion - I for one am giving you transparency - reviewing stuff is a time-consuming money-pit that I do because it's a nice outlet for me outside of work. I will take your post not as a mod, but you can't make a post like that which are clearly inflammatory and not expect reaction - there are only a very few people on this site that review regularly, and of them, I'm the only one reading this thread to defend us.

Here is my post:

I haven't heard the Protector yet so I will reserve judgment. However, I have learned not to rely upon anyones ears but my own. In particular, I avoid relying on those that post and review pretty regularly around here as I question their motivation for much of what they write. That's just my opinion.

It was my opinion. Those that choose to agree can and those that choose to disagree can as well. Motivation can mean a lot of things, not necessarily taking money or something else in return for writing something. You chose, not me, to bring the word shill into the discussion. I purposely did not use that word as it is a strong one. It was you that turned the discussion "infammatory" not me.

 

[atothex]

Why the hell are people still trying to drive HD650s with portables? Haven't y'all read Boomana's excellent beginner FAQ?

Anyways, my personal impressions:
- heard Pico Slim briefly with Qualias; I thought to myself "these stock Qualias have a big ass TRS plug"

Hope that helped!

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not strictly true, you refused offers of reviewing amps because the manufacturer isnt interested in sending you one to review. While I have enjoyed thoroughly reading through your behemoth of a review thread, and of course there is nothing inherently off colour or jaundiced about accepting amps to review from the manufacturer, the statements I read from you totally disbarring the chance of reveiwing amps (even when offered to be sent them from members) because the manufacturer won't send you one does paint a slightly different picture than being in it purely for the fun of the hobby and left a sour taste in my mouth.

I don't like to receive amps from head-fi members for review, for two reasons:

1. I can't predict how long a review will take me, and I don't like tying up someone else's personal property

2. I have no problem writing a negative review where I am send a loaner by the amp's maker - but I once wrote a negative review of an amp that was loaned to me by a member, and that member was mad I didn't like the amp he'd bought, and gave me a super hard time for a long time. Manufacturers know they cannot get away with that behavior - members do not always. So I don't like to review loaners from members precisely BECAUSE it helps to keep the stress level down, and the fun up.

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Allow me to quote you Ray, from your own website: So enlighten me Ray, instead of attacking me, and tell me why for IEMs (which is what I was specifically talking about) an analog pot is preferable to a digital one when you yourself have said exactly the opposite? Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying?

The Digital volume controls that are designed for portable use are designed using single power supply. Only the very few that are designed with dual power supplies. Those are not recommended in the portable use as they need higher voltage & current which is not applicable in portable use.
As head-fiers, we demand the best possible sound from our portable amps.
One of the draw back of using the digital volume controls in portable amps is the single rail power supply that dictates the use of INPUT & OUTPUT capacitors in the signal path. That by it self is not acceptable by many of us including you. Remember the ONE who said "NO CAPS IN THE SIGNAL PATH?"

I had a long talk on the phone with many engineers of the digital volume control companies, described to them my need, they answered that all these portable digital volume controls are designed for a single power supply for portable use only.

The Shadow has a digital volume control but I have worked around the digital volume control to make sure it will work with dual power supplies so I don't have to install input & output caps in the signal path.
But I assure you, had I designed the Shadow with single power supply, and being the only manufacturer with digital volume control portable amp, with caps in the input & output stage of the signal path , you would have been the very FIRST to criticize my design.
Ray Samuels

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... as I question their motivation for much of what they write. That's just my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or to accept that everyone has an agenda, and to put your primary trust in your own ears.

First of all, I agree that everyone must listen for himself to know for sure. But that doesn't automatically means that everyone that posts here including reviewers have some sort of hidden agenda or mysterious motivation. There are many problematic assumptions that are made in the above statements. First of all, we cannot assume facts not found in evidence unless we have a paranoid problem. Second, you assume that most headfiers cannot read reviews objectively or critically and therefore could be mislead by hidden agenda and motivation even if they are there. I think a reviewer obtain their creditbility not by merely posting a lot here. If I buy a product and if my expericence of the product doesn't match the reviewer's discription or experience, that reviewer will loose credibility on my book.

It seems like everyone agrees that you really should not comment on a product unless you have personal experience with that product. As far as I can tell, the Slim was heard by Walkgood, Boomana, and Grawk and the Protector was heard by Ipodpj, Skylab, Moonboy, and Jamato. Those are all positive feedback, but none have heard both. I am totally surprised by the majority of the posts in this thread that either attack or demean the Protector based on spec alone whereas there is hardly any critical comments on the Slim.

 

[boomana]

Lordy, people. We're talking about amps, portable ones at that. What bothers me, other than the unnecessary heated gab going on, is that there's no reason to more or less pit these two amps against each other. As far as I can see, people that want a portable balanced solution will get the Protector, and those that don't will get any number of other options available, including the Slim.

Maybe I'm old school, but I don't look to portable amps to drive my desktop headphones. I have yet to hear one that can drive the known harder to drive headphones close to optimal, which is what I'm personally looking for when building a desktop rig. Others have different ideas and that's fine. If I'm buying a portable amp, it's for my portable rig, which happens to be JH13s right now. If I choose to bring an amp around with me (not commom practice), have no interest in having a balanced rig with me. Others may, and I have to say I am curious to hear the JH13s balanced, even if I never choose to go that route with mine. Hopefully, I'll be able to hear the Protector at CanJam. Until then, I'm not going to comment on it, or pay too much attention to what others are saying, though I do read out of curiosity.

I did order the Slim because I have heard it, and it suited my tastes and needs, especially for it's control at very low volumes. Others may choose differently.

It's not a competition, folks. Get whatever amp you want.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here is my post: I haven't heard the Protector yet so I will reserve judgment. However, I have learned not to rely upon anyones ears but my own. In particular, I avoid relying on those that post and review pretty regularly around here as I question their motivation for much of what they write. That's just my opinion. It was my opinion. Those that choose to agree can and those that choose to disagree can as well. Motivation can mean a lot of things, not necessarily taking money or something else in return for writing something. You chose, not me, to bring the word shill into the discussion. I purposely did not use that word as it is a strong one. It was you that turned the discussion "infammatory" not me.

Oh come on. Your post QUOTED someone who was discussing, in words, that very accusation - and you made your post clearly in reply to that, even quoting it. Your opinion was clearly couched as yours, and I was well within my right to comment on it. My sarcasm was no more inflammatory than your "opinion".

Anyway, that's it. I had planned to review the Predator, but it's very clear to me that such effort would be completely wasted, so I'm not going to bother. I've got better things to do than feed this fire. Later, fellas. My T1's are calling me.

 

[dfkt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by atothex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why the hell are people still trying to drive HD650s with portables? Haven't y'all read Boomana's excellent beginner FAQ?

That's one of those quite exaggerated "audiophile" myths... the HD650 really aren't that hard to drive as almost everybody (- almost everybody on these forums here, not in reality) makes them out to be. Even the Sansa Clip+ on its own drives them quite acceptably, believe it or not. It's dangerous when people believe everything they read, instead of testing it on their own.

 

[grawk]

It can drive them, but they sound terrible when inadequately powered. So buying a portable amp for the purpose of using HD650s is a waste of money, both for the amp and the headphones.

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can sell a bunch of cables, and you get to win the race to "first balanced mainstream portable"

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelt2359 /img/forum/go_quote.gif From Larry ('headphoneaddict') : "I have heard balanced amps that do an excellent job splitting a single ended input into a balanced signal, including the RSA A-10 - where I could not distinguish when I was listing to the Meridian CDP via single ended signal and when I was listening to the balanced signal. The soundstage and separation was equally as good with either signal. I was able to hear the difference between the tubes in the SE circuit vs the balanced circuit, as they were different brands and sounded slightly different in tone (SE tube was an Amperex that was slightly more rolled off than the ones in the balanced circuit). My SP Square Wave XL also does a great job converting SE sources to balanced, and there are others that use phase splitters or input transformers to accept an SE source and convert it to balanced. So, a balanced source is not mandatory." source: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f38/fi...03/index4.html Another view, from qusp: "slim, i'm waiting for a more true balanced solution that actually accepts balanced input. I find it a little odd that once portable dacs with a balanced signal path are released shortly, the protector will not be able tpo be used with them except through a single ended adapter" source: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/p...45/index2.html

Thanks. I wonder how the Protector's implementation of phase splitting is going to be. Nate got a point, I hope the introduction of another active stage is not going to have an adverse effect on SQ.

Still I can't help to think that this whole portable balanced business is a bit gimmick-y. Of course more power to Ray if the whole thing can work out in the end but I'll stick to a PMP and an IEM as my portable setup of choice for now. I'm not keen of carrying humongous 18AWG converter cables in my shirt's pocket.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfkt /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's one of those quite exaggerated "audiophile" myths... the HD650 really aren't that hard to drive as almost everybody (- almost everybody on these forums here, not in reality) makes them out to be. Even the Sansa Clip+ on its own drives them quite acceptably, believe it or not. It's dangerous when people believe everything they read, instead of testing it on their own.

The problem is when people have different ideas of what being driven acceptably means. I'm a huge HD650 fan, but dislike it out of almost all single-ended amps I've heard with the exception of a handful, and believe it fares better out of the balanced amps I've heard, but am not going to get into that here. I have yet to hear a portable amp drive them to an sq I consider something I would choose, though you can certainly get them loud (never the point of good amplification).

Again, that's a discussion for a different thread (and there are many), but as far as this one goes, I'd not choose either amp for the 650s, and as I've said before, if portables could drive audiophile headphones as well as decent desktop amps, no one would be making desktop amps anymore, and that's just not happening (thank goodness).

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh come on. Your post QUOTED someone who was discussing, in words, that very accusation - and you made your post clearly in reply to that, even quoting it. Your opinion was clearly couched as yours, and I was well within my right to comment on it. My sarcasm was no more inflammatory than your "opinion". Anyway, that's it. I had planned to review the Predator, but it's very clear to me that such effort would be completely wasted, so I'm not going to bother. I've got better things to do than feed this fire. Later, fellas. My T1's are calling me.

And I intentionally did not use those words. You can comment on my opinion all you want, just don't put words in my mouth. My opinion was not inflammatory, your use of the term "shill" and ascribing it to me was.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Samuels /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I assure you, had I designed the Shadow with single power supply, and being the only manufacturer with digital volume control portable amp, with caps in the input & output stage of the signal path , you would have been the very FIRST to criticize my design. Ray Samuels

How about you stick to what you know Ray, and avoid assuring yourself or anyone else about what I might have done had you designed something, someway that you didn't?

What you fail to grasp here is that I wasn't being critical of your products, you like to always view my posts in that light. Why, I don't know since in the past I've gone out of my way to help you at various meets when I've been able to. If I was out to get you do you think I'd have given you parts, not once, but twice to repair your amplifiers so that others could continue to enjoy them?

I suggested that when someone compared one of your products to another that yes, in fact, in some ways it was the better choice. But in other ways I think it was not as good a choice for a specific type of headphone. That's my opinion and I don't think you have to respond with the type of force you've shown the last couple of times I've expressed my opinion.

And I'm pretty sure that some of your amps have coupling caps, as have many amps that I've built, I don't see these caps as inherently evil or good. They are just the natural consequence of some designs and as I'm sure you've found they can sound plenty good. Surely you're not going to tell me that the Raptor is a design failure because of its coupling caps, are you?

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif It can drive them, but they sound terrible when inadequately powered. So buying a portable amp for the purpose of using HD650s is a waste of money, both for the amp and the headphones.

I use my hd650 with the headroom micro amp and it doesn't sound terrible to me at all.in fact it is very good and pleasurable experiance.I ordered the woo6 which is supposed to be one of the best to see if there is a difference between it and my $300 micro amp,but I am quite satisfied with the hd650 and micro.