Phone Fi
Jun 24, 2011 at 5:37 PM Post #166 of 423
Mine is Nexus One running 2.3.4.
 
Looking To replacement with something with better audio quality,cant decide between SE Arc and the SGS II.....
The SGS II sound quality seemed bad on paper.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9100_galaxy_s_ii-review-597p8.php 
alot of IMD and noise,the Arc is clearer.
Does anyone know which DAC SE is using in the ARC?
 
Jun 24, 2011 at 6:41 PM Post #167 of 423
Is there anyone who is actually testing and rating the audio out-put quality of these various phones? I honestly can't imagine any of them are all that much better than any of the others. I'd love to see some data to the contrary.
 
Jun 24, 2011 at 8:23 PM Post #168 of 423
For listening to music, I still use my ipod with a LOD. I have heard that the Samsung Galaxy 1 was a good performer in terms of sound since flashing the voodoo kernel allowed for the 3.5mm headphone jack to function as a line level out.
 
Jul 11, 2011 at 11:51 PM Post #173 of 423
Jul 25, 2011 at 1:56 AM Post #174 of 423
Can you guys believe (stupid) Verizon shoving everyone in the corner to pay $30 a month for a smartphone? My parents dont want to pay that, and it seems like the basic phones, are neither touch screen, and are all old generations.What has the world come to?
 
Jul 25, 2011 at 2:56 AM Post #175 of 423
Translated to how that sounded from my perspective: "Why should I pay more for something that does more? Why is it the cheaper phones are lacking all the features of the better phones?"
 
Price decreases based on three things:
 - Less demand
 - Decreased costs for production
 - Something newer and shinier coming out
 
Phones aren't going to get cheaper because their capabilities keep increasing. Heck, The iPhone 5 will be as powerful as the laptop I bought for college. Almost as high of resolution, too and definitely more space (if rumors are true and they do a 64 GB model).
 
What I would argue IS over-priced are the phone plans. For instance, it costs a couple bucks a month for 100+ text messages when, in terms of cost per message, the telecoms pay around $0.25 per 4,000. Wish our pricing reflected that.
 
Personally, the only real complaint I have that I actually care about is the lack of any attempt at net neutrality in the mobile space. It worries me more because they keep saying mobile broadband is exempt when that is the future of the internet. Sure, you could argue it's just a theory, but evolution is just a theory and we're pretty sure about that one.
 
Jul 25, 2011 at 6:33 PM Post #176 of 423


Quote:
Translated to how that sounded from my perspective: "Why should I pay more for something that does more? Why is it the cheaper phones are lacking all the features of the better phones?"
 
Price decreases based on three things:
 - Less demand
 - Decreased costs for production
 - Something newer and shinier coming out
 
Phones aren't going to get cheaper because their capabilities keep increasing. Heck, The iPhone 5 will be as powerful as the laptop I bought for college. Almost as high of resolution, too and definitely more space (if rumors are true and they do a 64 GB model).



Not sure if you've noticed, but there's a functionality gap you can drive a semi through between featurephones which don't require dataplans and smartphones that do. I suspect it's a matter of intentional market segregation. Give featurephones too much capability and a large chunk of your smartphone market stops paying for $30-40/month data plans.
 
After all, it'd be trivial for, say, Apple to make a featurephone that slots between the iTouch and iPhone. An iPhone/iTouch hybrid with voice/SMS that only accesses data while on WiFi would hit the spot for quite a few people. Hardware wise, it'd be doable as there's not much of a BOM difference between the two devices (< $50) and plenty of marketspace to exploit given the $400 price difference between the 32GB variants of the iTouch and iPhone.
 
Ain't happening though and it's pretty obvious why. Carriers would have to be braindead to allow something like this. No carrier subsidy == no sales.
 
Jul 25, 2011 at 7:48 PM Post #178 of 423
Actually, it would be more accurate to say, "Give feature phones too much capability and they become smartphones." If you added a phone to the iPod Touch that would be a smartphone.
 
Look, I'm starting to think you don't quite understand the terms you're using. The big difference between a smartphone and a feature phone is that a smartphone can download and run custom apps where a feature phone is limited to what's built into the phone's OS. A smartphone is basically a very small, very portable computer that can make phone calls. If you start adding features to a feature phone they quickly bridge the gap into smartphone territory.
 
As for wifi-only hitting the spot for quite a few people, what are you basing this assumption off of? Because it is an assumption and I happen to know the opposite is true. It's not an opinion, either. I do a lot of iOS design and, as an occupational hazard, read a lot of user research. smartphones tend to browse the web most while away from the home or office. They're designed and used as a highly-portable device and most usage actually happens away from wifi.
 
Remember, wifi is not everywhere. It's not even most places. You step outside a major population center and free wifi becomes hard to find. You go out into rural areas and it's **** near impossible. To say wifi-only would hit the sweet spot for a large portion of the smartphone population would be to ignore a large body of user research.
 
As for something between an iPod Touch and an iPhone... What would that be? Because it basically sounds like an iPhone without a dataplan. Why would Apple make that? What possible benefit could it have for them?
 
OK, I agree pricing sucks. No one should have to pay $30 just to get 2 GB of bandwidth. It's silly and a ripoff. But the fault isn't with Apple, Google, RIM, Nokia, MIcrosoft, HTC, any of them. It's with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, et al. The only reason you have to have a data plan with your iPhone is because the telecoms say so. Apple doesn't require  you to have one. It's why you can turn data off when you go overseas so you don't end up with a $50,000+ phone bill.
 
Jul 25, 2011 at 11:50 PM Post #179 of 423

 
Quote:
Look, I'm starting to think you don't quite understand the terms you're using. The big difference between a smartphone and a feature phone is that a smartphone can download and run custom apps where a feature phone is limited to what's built into the phone's OS. A smartphone is basically a very small, very portable computer that can make phone calls. If you start adding features to a feature phone they quickly bridge the gap into smartphone territory.

 
 
It's a fairly arbitrary definition given that many featurephones have had both decent hardware specs and the capability of installing custom applications. If we're considering foreign markets, Japanese featurephones have long had applications that went well beyond the limited Java apps that made up most US featurephone software. The computer definition isn't very good either, as even featurephones have been very small, very portable computers (if not very capable ones) for a pretty long time. Even a definition based on operation systems would be fuzzy given that Symbian and Android based featurephones exist. I do understand that it's the commonly accepted definition though.
 
In any case, I was using featurephone as shorthand for the low end market where dataplans aren't required for contract subsidies (where the vast majority of the phones sold happen to be featurephones). I could have clarified and put "featurephone-class market segment" and "smartphone-class market segment" or "voice only subsidy market" and "data and voice subsidy market" everywhere I had featurephone and smartphone, but figured (wrongly as it turned out) that it'd be clear enough that I was referring to market segments.
 
 
Quote:
As for something between an iPod Touch and an iPhone... What would that be? Because it basically sounds like an iPhone without a dataplan. Why would Apple make that? What possible benefit could it have for them?
 
OK, I agree pricing sucks. No one should have to pay $30 just to get 2 GB of bandwidth. It's silly and a ripoff. But the fault isn't with Apple, Google, RIM, Nokia, MIcrosoft, HTC, any of them. It's with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, et al. The only reason you have to have a data plan with your iPhone is because the telecoms say so. Apple doesn't require  you to have one. It's why you can turn data off when you go overseas so you don't end up with a $50,000+ phone bill.

 
 
It'd be a mid-market ~ $100-150 phone on 2 year contract (assuming usual $200-250 featurephone subsidy and the ~ 2x iTouch MSRP/BOM ratio) with no dataplan required. Slightly more expensive than the average feature phone, slightly less expensive than an iPod Touch, and much less expensive than an iPhone. I suspect it'd do pretty well in the large featurephone-class market segment where Apple currently has no market presense.
 
I also take a broader view of who to blame for bandwidth pricing. Sure the carriers are part of it, but smartphones have an awfully high MSRP/BOM ratio (~ 3x for iPhone, Nexus, Droid) compared to other consumer electronics products. I have little doubt that contract subsidies and the carriers' capability to recoup part of the subsidy through overpriced data plans are a major reason why off-contract smartphones are such high margin devices.
 
 
Quote:
As for wifi-only hitting the spot for quite a few people, what are you basing this assumption off of? Because it is an assumption and I happen to know the opposite is true. It's not an opinion, either. I do a lot of iOS design and, as an occupational hazard, read a lot of user research. smartphones tend to browse the web most while away from the home or office. They're designed and used as a highly-portable device and most usage actually happens away from wifi.

 
 
As above, the target of the hypothetical device isn't the smartphone-class market segment. Still think it'd cannibalize a significant portion of the low data usage smartphone crowd and smartphone intenders currently using featurephones given that cost of ownership would run at least $300 less per year.
 
Jul 26, 2011 at 3:14 AM Post #180 of 423
Well, it's not arbitrary. It's the actual industry accepted definition of a feature phone. A smartphone has a lot of computational power, a feature phone does not. A smartphone can run a variety of third-party apps. A feature phone cannot. A smartphone often has extra forms of connectivity like wifi or sometimes NFC. Aside from bluetooth, feature phones usually do not have any of these forms of connectivity. Again, this isn't my definition. This is the commonly accepted definition by those who work in the mobile industry. If you don't believe me, Google it and you will see for yourself that the difference between a smartphone and a feature phone is computational power and over-all features.
 
Here's a simple way to figure out where a device sits. Is it markedly more capable than the most basic phones? Is it as capable as the most advanced phones? If it's somewhere in the middle it's a feature phone.
 
Also, just so we're clear, most phones are subsidized under contract. That's why you can get a free phone with a 2-year contract. Granted, the subsidy is often only $50 to $100 but it's still a subsidy.
 
I still cannot see why Apple would ever choose to make a dumbed-down iPhone. I really don't. They would be taking away features and now having to support four variations of iOS where three of them are radically different.
 
As for the MSRP, there are a number of factors you may not be counting. Phones take a relatively decent technological jump every year or two. There is a great deal of R&D that goes into this and each company is, more or less, doing it on their own. In contrast, Blu-ray players, TVs and the like don't actually change that much and all use a lot of the same technology, technology that is shared in other sectors.
 
Again, if we're talking about people who are looking for a device that's as capable as, say, an iPod Touch they're still going to want the mobile data. You can say you don't think that's the case, and with a certain segment of the population you're right. But the majority do want mobile data, it's why they go for a smartphone in the first place. Beyond that, what about Apple's business strategy makes you think they'd care about such a low-end market? They barely make computers that cost less than $1,000. The only areas where they are truly, really competitive in price are the iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch and the Apple TV (oddly enough).
 
With the iPod Touch, they have no need to go cheaper as it sells very well already. Well, very well ish. Sales are declining as more people go smartphone which is fine by Apple as their sales are being cannibalized by their own device, a device which costs more than the one it's killing off.
 
With the iPad, the price is perfect by Apple's logic and if someone wants a cheaper tablet they can go to the competition. Which they aren't. There's a reason iPads make up between 70-85% of the tablet market. As it stands, the iPad is about the same (and sometimes cheaper) than the competition while offering most of the features regular people actually care about.
 
With the iPhone, they already sell the iPhone 3GS at a massive discount. You can get them for $50 on contract if you know where to look. Why would they want to make a device with fewer features that will cannibalize from their already successful sales? if Apple created a device that cost $100 and offered a subset of the features the iPhone 4 offered, and assuming people stopped buying the iPhone 4 and bought the iPhone Mini or whatever instead, where's that smart for Apple? They might sell more of them but they're already selling millions of iPhones every year. Why would they want to sell more of a drastically cheaper device? It's bad business.
 

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