[Bob_McBob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've long treated PayPal like I would treat sending a check, cash, or postal money order. It's just a more convenient way of doing thing at a small cost. PayPal isn't an escrow service and I'm kind of boggled that people would treat it that way.

Expecting a company that makes a big deal of its "buyer protection" to protect you as a buyer is not the same as treating it as an escrow service. An online electronic payment by credit card though a system with user accounts and oversight by real people should not carry anywhere near the same risk as sending cash to a stranger.

That said, PayPal's buyer protection is a joke. I had a problem with a scammer on head-fi (see my sig), and because they'd already cleared out their account (as any smart scammer would do), PayPal ruled in my favour and told me to go **** myself because they weren't giving me any of their own money to cover the loss. I called my bank and did a chargeback right away. If your credit card company won't go to bat for you in cases of online fraud, you should be switching banks RIGHT NOW.

Credit cards are the only sensible method of paying for items through PayPal. Using a debit card or PayPal balance is just idiotic at this point.

 

[m11a1]

Nothing

 

[komi]

OK, IF PayPal is all that bad, why all posts here says "PayPal ONLY" ? AND - "no CC PayPal" ...

Should all we avoid buying on Head-Fi then and should all we close PayPal accounts now ?

I am still using PayPal, and - i dont see better way to buy something on eBay ...

How many of you use another service to pay on eBay really ?

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_McBob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Expecting a company that makes a big deal of its "buyer protection" to protect you as a buyer is not the same as treating it as an escrow service. An online electronic payment by credit card though a system with user accounts and oversight by real people should not carry anywhere near the same risk as sending cash to a stranger.

AFAIK, PayPal only claims buyer protection on eBay sales. Otherwise, they have a complaint system that really doesn't help against scammers. Understandable as they really have no tracking mechanism and it's just "he said she said" as far as they can tell.

Not that I disagree with you. An online electronic payment site should have enough oversight capability to stop most scammers. But if it's out there, I haven't seen it and to me, PayPal's still useful for what it can do.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, IF PayPal is all that bad, why all posts here says "PayPal ONLY" ? AND - "no CC PayPal" ... Should all we avoid buying on Head-Fi then and should all we close PayPal accounts now ? I am still using PayPal, and - i dont see better way to buy something on eBay ... How many of you use another service to pay on eBay really ?

You answered your own question. There isn't a viable alternative to Paypal so we continue to use it. For all it's faults, it is still the best way (imo) to easily pay/send money online.

 

[linuxworks]

at least in the US, paypal is NOT the best way.

COD is the best way. postman comes, collects CASH (there's a box for cash-only on the form) and then gives the goodie. this also accomplishes the 'signed for' concept and ensures that no box is 'left in the bushes' (some postman do that, sigh).

I used to do a lot of COD deliveries and they always worked out well.

otoh, fake cashiers checks are rampant ;( and this does not protect against that. otooh, the US mail is a federal entity. you defraud the US mail and you may end up wishing you were never born!

don't mess with the US mail and mail fraud. that's VERY serious. more than 'UPS fraud' or fedex fraud.

fwiw

 

[Blackmore]

Yes there are, moneybookers, less fees as well. I was "forced" to open the account, cos the guy I bought the valves from located in Peru and cant use paypal. I used it once, no probs what so ever.
Paypal been around for many years and become huge, however, if you in trouble and can explain the story, they will assist you anyway, just have to talk to the right person, that's all. Like I said, its a huge company and when you angry or mad and expect something that cant be done, well, you think very negative directly. Yes, its logical, but at the end you have to concentrate and try to get the maximum of their possible assistance/help and sometimes its working, know from my own experience. I got a claim against me and thought I was loosing the money and the valves, but at the end I got the funds back, 3 month later, but still. A very nice person from paypal helped me by sending an mail to the guy and the rest is not that interesting, like angry mails and stuff like that. There are ways to try to get the bad person, you have to focus on that and you can make it happened. I don't believe that we have something to do with a real scammer up here, its just a guy who is a real ahssol. Most of scammers will not answer any of your mails, so, hopefully OP can get the need it help and will be booking the result soon. I would say, stay positive and don't give up.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif You answered your own question. There isn't a viable alternative to Paypal so we continue to use it. For all it's faults, it is still the best way (imo) to easily pay/send money online.

 

[floydenheimer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif You answered your own question. There isn't a viable alternative to Paypal so we continue to use it. For all it's faults, it is still the best way (imo) to easily pay/send money online.

Really?

Yes, it's US only, but it's still better than Paypal when you can use it.

 

[vcoheda]

i filed a dispute with audiogon. the seller posted his side. i, mine. audiogon agreed with me that the seller should refund my money. so my chances of getting my money back just went from 0% to 1% (maybe). my feedback still has not been posted. will it ever? does anyone ever get neg feedback on a'gon.

running out of options that don't involve spending real time or money.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys should go and look sellers forums about PayPal protecting buyers, there is still no better service for eBay then PayPal ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif very odd. something does not seem on-the-level about these big banks (again, no surprise here!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_McBob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Credit cards are the only sensible method of paying for items through PayPal. Using a debit card or PayPal balance is just idiotic at this point.

But they do offer eBay type-protection with non-eBay items if you use direct debit from your checking account, or if you use PayPal's Buyer Credit. I have personally gotten help from them in this instance, even though I had to point out their obligations to them first; it's not just something I "believe:"

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, IF PayPal is all that bad, why all posts here says "PayPal ONLY" ? AND - "no CC PayPal" ... How many of you use another service to pay on eBay really ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif You answered your own question. There isn't a viable alternative to Paypal so we continue to use it. For all it's faults, it is still the best way (imo) to easily pay/send money online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by floydenheimer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Really? Yes, it's US only, but it's still better than Paypal when you can use it.

Problem is, you pretty much can't, even if it is better. Nobody takes it.

 

[edisonwu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i'm almost in disbelief that it really does work this way, but it does.

I second unless they charge lower rate for non-ebay paypal transaction.

 

[trevorlane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i filed a dispute with audiogon. the seller posted his side. i, mine. audiogon agreed with me that the seller should refund my money. so my chances of getting my money back just went from 0% to 1% (maybe). my feedback still has not been posted. will it ever? does anyone ever get neg feedback on a'gon. running out of options that don't involve spending real time or money.

Have you considered small claims court? If he gets a summons, and he's a good distance away, maybe he'll just give you your money back before coming to NY to deal with it. Forms Filing fee is $10 I believe. I'm not sure if this applies to courts there but small claims for under $1000 are generally done in front of a judge with no lawyers allowed.

 

[vcoheda]

seller lives in NC, so i would have to bring the claim there. Not terribly convenient.

 

[trevorlane]

I just checked the NY court site and it appears you are correct. In Massachusetts, proper venue for the claim can be where either the plaintiff or defendant lives, and with the cable + funds now located in NC... anybody in NC to help?

 

[koven]

i've been through this a few times but never had issues getting a refund w/ my amex, they've probably done 4-5 charge backs for me now, no hassle at all