[vcoheda]

I purchased some XLR cables from a seller on Audiogon. One the connectors on the cables was misaligned and would not plug in. I asked the seller for a refund. He said no. I made a paypal claim and he then said he would issue a refund after I returned the cables. I did that and then he said the cables were "pictured accurately" whatever that means and would not refund my money. I then escalated the claim and received this message from paypal about 1 minute later.

Quote:

You have chosen to escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with the seller, you are asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center. Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue are fund.

What?!?!

What do I do now?

 

[Bob_McBob]

Chargeback

 

[the search never ends]

That iis exactly why several attempts are being made to come up with paypal alternatives. Ever since ebay purchased paypal, it has gotten worse. Now before you paypal defenders climb out of the cracks......I don't want to debate this.

 

[3602]

To self: Never eBay. Ever.

 

[jax]

Their response is a bit odd from my own experience with them. I bought a pair of tubes from an eBay seller with 100% feedback, who boasted of that record on all of his listings, and assured the potential buyer of his goods satisfaction. In the same listings there was also the disclaimer "sold as-is". The assurances occupied far more real estate. So I get the tubes which are supposedly thoroughly tested via buy-it-now (a price only about 25% more than the starting bid). The tubes arrived and self-generated noises when put into an amp circuit. I politely requested the seller consider a refund as I could not use them if they generated their own noises. The sellers response was that of a bit of a self-righteous know-it-all, and I think that's ultimately what caused PP to decide in my favor. We went through a bit of back-and-forth arbitration on the PP site, then finally had nothing more to say so left it to PP. There was quite a bit of discussion for them to consider. They decided in my favor and I was able to return the tubes and get an immediate refund via PP through a confirmed shipment back to the seller. I guess in their view the reason for the decision was that they might be able to view the goods as not as-described. Nevertheless it was a judgment that was based on the attributes of the goods received, and NOT just the shipment, as they cited in your case. My case was about three months ago or less. I don't know if they've changed their policy since then. Mine was also an eBay transaction and I believe eBay owns PayPal. I don't know if that makes any difference. Still, I think What is the response I would have as well. That isn't much protection to only insure that AN item is shipped and received.

 

[vcoheda]

i just spoke to a paypal representative. here is the deal:

* the full claims process - meaning all those options they list as potential reasons why you are filing a claim - only applies for items purchased off ebay.

* for items not purchased off ebay, the only valid claim you can make for a refund is non delivery of goods. no other claim (item defective, etc) is valid, even though they are offered - i.e., you can file a claim and list them as reasons.

apparently it explains all this somewhere in the user agreement. so now i have no item and no refund - nothing. bottom line, and despite the site suggesting otherwise, paypal offers zero protection against defective goods unless you made the purchase off ebay.

lesson learned.

 

[AtomikPi]

The only way to not have issues is to deal with reliable sellers who have feedback and whatnot so if something's wrong they'll deal with it.

In the one instance that I disputed an ebay item through paypal, I lost my money after spending much time on correspondence. Chargeback through a credit card is much more reliable in my experience.

 

[ivanrocks321]

hope it was not to much of a loss if you cant get a cc charge back.

 

[Guidostrunk]

WOW what bunch of BS. Now we have to worry using pay pal buying things from anywhere besides FLEABAY? So basically there policy is, as long as they get there money who gives a $@#! if your not purchasing from the FLEABAY site. What a complete joke, so knowing this will give the toolboxes of the world the green light to sell you what ever they want, and get away with it just because you received shipment. My words exactly What.

 

[Drag0n]

Tell him to at least send the item back to you.
If he doesnt, id call a lawyer.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Call the attorney generals office and file a complaint.

 

[ivanrocks321]

I got to find another way other than paypal.... this is very wrong on so many levels.

 

[MomijiTMO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif * for items not purchased off ebay, the only valid claim you can make for a refund is non delivery of goods. no other claim (item defective, etc) is valid, even though they are offered - i.e., you can file a claim and list them as reasons.

Didn't know this. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cheemo]

^x2! I hope things work out vcoheda and you get your money back.

 

[vcoheda]

it's really screwed up.

the claims process looks exactly the same for ebay items and non-ebay items. but what you don't know is that you have zero possibility of recovering - that is, of paypal deciding in your favor - for items purchased off non-ebay sites for anything but non delivery. so you go through this whole process, like i did, and the end result when you escalate the claim is an automated email saying sorry.

i'm almost in disbelief that it really does work this way, but it does.