[facelvega]

Well, I've been thinking of adding some mid-price dynamic in-ears as a balance against my depodded im716, which are great but a little limited for some situations: they only produce a full bass response at higher volume, i.e. not suited to longer sessions, and sometimes they feel a little thin. I get the feeling a decent dynamic would be a good counterpart for them in my system.

I've read all the recent threads on the new higher-end dynamics, but it occurs to me that with the recent im716 sales, there may be a whole bunch more people who can offer quick comparisons of the im716 to these earphones. I'm thinking specifically the Denon c700/c751, JVC fx500, Atrio, and on the cheap end the AT CK7 and Head-Direct RE-2. I'm also interested in the armature-based Klipsch Custom 1 and 2 that seem to have appeared as part of the same wave of competing products.

I get the impression that the JVC or Klipsch Image would be the best options, but they're a bit above what I'd like to spend here. The prices for the CK7 and RE2 are great, but maybe they'd have been better as a first earphone than as a counterpart to the Altecs. And yet there are those who say they are nearly as good as the Denons, and reviews of the Klipsch customs are thin on the ground. Somehow the Atrio just doesn't stir my blood, but I might be convinced.

Anyone?

 

[bostitch]

I have both denon C700 and podless iM716 (with either 41 or 46 ohm, not sure because I bought it used from for sale forum here). IME, the C700 definitely produce more bass than the iM716 even at low volume. The mid on C700 is very good and comparable to iM716. The high on C700 is also very good and comparable to iM716. Overall the C700 is warmer than the iM716. However, C700 does not have as good of isolation as the iM716. I use C700 more than the iM716 because I like the sound signature of the C700 better.

I think C700 is a good complement your iM716. Most people recommend to burn in the C700 for at least 20 hours, some even said to burn in more than 100 hours before you can truly judge its sound. And if you are in US, I think you can get it at a very good price ~$100-$150.

If you are thinking of even warmer sounding phones, then Atrio would be better choice based on what I read.

I can't tell you much about your other options because I have not read nor have any experience with them.

 

[tstarn06]

Take a look at some of the reviews here on the Head-Direct RE2s, which are selling for $80 (until 4/26) to Head-Fi members (group buy price). They are new IEMs, and since I own the 716s (still podded), Denon 551s (very similar to the C700s) and the RE2s, I have to say unamped, apples to apples, the RE2s are my favorites. They need a little EQ boost on the bottom end, but they deliver a tight, refined, balanced sound. I did a comparison with the Denon 551s here, and also 1-2 others on Head-Fi have reviewed them. I also owned the C700s, but sold them when I felt their mids/highs were a little too harsh for my taste. I also owned and truly liked the Atrios, but sold them when I moved up to the Sleek SA6s (the best in-ear phones I own, by far). The Atrio sound is bass-oriented, but you can EQ the mids-highs if you need to. Very non-fatiguing, warm sound, without being muddy at all.

Going back down the price ladder, to me, at $80, the RE2s are a real bargain. I like the Denon 551s too, but they are more "crashy" (as someone described their mids/highs) than the RE2s, and also while they are made of metal, so they are durable, that also makes them heavier than the RE2s (to me, a shirt clip is required if you wear them down, not over the ear). I find the sound and comfort of the RE2s a tad better (different) than the Denons, but that's based on my taste in sound. The RE2s are not fatiguing, while the Denons may be harder to handle for long listening sessions. The C700s are even larger than the 551s, so they are heavy buggers in my view.

I plan on keeping both phones (551s and RE2s), will probably give the former to my daughter when she heads off to college in the fall). Oh, I use Comply T400 foam tips with both, making them much more isolating than they are with the stock silicone sleeves, which I find irritating and not as comfy as the Complys (which are expensive, at nearly $3 a pair).

 

[facelvega]

many thanks, bostitch, that was what I was hoping to hear about the c700. Unless a pair of the JVC magically appear for ca. $125, the Denons are in the lead for me.

In my experience with the several pairs of dynamic canalphones I've had, there is a two-stage burn-in process: the first is radical, a much bigger difference than with full-size dynamic drivers, and happens within the first dozen hours. The 100 hour mark is more in keeping with the kind of burn-in people talk about on this forum, and is more subtle and debatable. This has been the case for all three pairs I've had so far, enough that I think it must be something about the difficulty of executing a really tiny dynamic driver.

 

[facelvega]

Thanks, tstarn, though I'd read about the RE-2 at some point lately, they'd fallen back off my radar. They do sound like a serious contender. However, I am worried a bit that they are more or less comparable to the even cheaper CK7, with their great detail and slightly recessed bass. Some prefer the CK7 to the c700, as you prefer the RE-2 to either Denon. I'll read the other reviews you mention, though, and add them to my list of contenders.

 

[facelvega]

Alright, new day and I'm caught up on my RE2 thread reading. They're definitely in the game, but my big question remains: how do they stack up to the CK7? Somebody around here must have tried both.

The other question: anybody at all tried the Klipsch Custom 2? Why has the image taken up 90 percent of the attention to the new Klipsch line when it seems like the price of the Custom 1 and 2 is at a much bigger sweet spot in the IEM market?

 

[K3cT]

Just a word of warning, CK7 can sound a little bit thin and flat and although I like them, I find that I listen more often to my C700 now as I seem to prefer the latter's sound signature.

 

[Jon118]

The Klipschs are balanced armatures as well, but I'm sure you knew that. Compared to the iM716s I would say the Custom-1s have less brightness in their treble, warmer mids and much more full bass. While I don't believe in burn-in for IEMs, the Custom-1s did take a while for me to adjust to, so maybe there was some sort of burn-in for them. The Custom-1s also seem more detailed than the iM716s from what I remember of them, maybe not as accurate, but definitely very detailed.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon118 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Klipschs are balanced armatures as well, but I'm sure you knew that. Compared to the iM716s I would say the Custom-1s have less brightness in their treble, warmer mids and much more full bass. While I don't believe in burn-in for IEMs, the Custom-1s did take a while for me to adjust to, so maybe there was some sort of burn-in for them. The Custom-1s also seem more detailed than the iM716s from what I remember of them, maybe not as accurate, but definitely very detailed.

Yes, I just include the Klipsch as part of the wave of new general-audio brand IEMs (japanese-market JVC, Kenwood, Denon, etc.) that have appeared lately to compete with the IEM specialist marques, and because they haven't been discussed as much as other new options like the Sleek, or before that, the Q-Jays. I should be more precise up above, though, you're right.

I'm unclear about one thing you mention, though: that the Custom 1 feel more detailed but perhaps not as accurate as the im716. Do you mean accurate in the sense of flat? I'm looking for an option with more bass punch and warmer mids than the im716, but if I lose much of the top-end air and sparkle, I know from experience that they'll just gather dust for me.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alright, new day and I'm caught up on my RE2 thread reading. They're definitely in the game, but my big question remains: how do they stack up to the CK7? Somebody around here must have tried both. The other question: anybody at all tried the Klipsch Custom 2? Why has the image taken up 90 percent of the attention to the new Klipsch line when it seems like the price of the Custom 1 and 2 is at a much bigger sweet spot in the IEM market?

Can't help you there, never owned the CK7 (hard to believe, I know).

 

[syed786]

non one here knows about the new Sennheiser IE-7 or IE-8 IEM
they r the sennheiser flagship models with Dynamic Drivers NOT Armature
i dont know why. anyone knows..............

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by syed786 /img/forum/go_quote.gif non one here knows about the new Sennheiser IE-7 or IE-8 IEM they r the sennheiser flagship models with Dynamic Drivers NOT Armature i dont know why. anyone knows..............

I'm very skeptical about Senn canalphones after the mediocre badge-engineered cx300, and I find Senn's market positioning, product philosophy, and pricing strategy really awful. So, I probably wouldn't buy anything that said Senn on it (though I have had multiple Senns in the past, and have tested about twenty Senn models over the years). Unfair, I know, but they're just off the map for me.

 

[-=Germania=-]

c700 - More instrument separation and fuller bass.

im716 - largest soundstage of any IEM I have tried and great detail with plenty of sparkle

Custom2 - recessed mids and over emphasized bass. Sounded like a speedier e530 with a little more top end.

Big suggestion: do the de-poding - huge detail jump IMO and resolves much better.

 

[dr dougie]

vs. Atrio M8 - the IM716s have better treble and soundstage (obviously their strong point), but are harder to drive and less sensitive. The IM716s bass is weak and falls off way above 20Hz as you'll find when you amp and eq them.

The Atrios have far better bass (their strong point), with lots more of it down to 20 Hz, and with dynamic drivers have physical impact that's hard to explain if you haven't experienced it. You'll feel the drum kicks! Treble is not quite as good as especially podectimized IM716 but it's pretty good. I would say the Atrios are more musical overall but that's probably personal preference.

So Atrios are more an alternative than upgrade unless you love bass! Me? I need good bass and prefer the Atrios (and Images!) Of course given the price difference IM716 is a real bargain.

 

[facelvega]

Thanks for chiming in, Germania and dougie. It seems like it's coming clearer how each option would work as partner to the im716. (ps, Germania, I did the im716 depod, it was well worth it.) In ascending price order:

CK7: probably just not a good complement to the other earphone.

RE2: better unamped, but need bass EQ as much as im716.

Denon c700: warmer, more fun, better bass, nearly as resolving, but potentially clangy.

Klipsch Custom 1 and 2: warmer, bassier (too much?), nearly as resolving, possibly recessed mids.

Atrio M8: warmer, bassier (too much?), weaker treble.

JVC Victor FX500: I guess nobody but Shizgeo really has these yet. From his review, they sound like a perfect fit for my needs, but I could get a c700 and an RE2 together for the same price.

I can see arguments for and against each option. I'm still leaning toward the Denons, because from the whole list, they're the one where the argument against (overextended top end) is something I don't mind. If I didn't already have the im716, I might well just get the RE2 and be done with it.