Out Of Your Head - new virtual surround simulator

[olegausany]

I tried it with foobar...could only get DS to work, WASAPI gave an unrecoverable playback error. JRiver didn't detect the virtual device at all :/

Sampled every preset.

I did prefer it to stereo, and it sounds less "sterile", but the sounds just didn't sound like they were coming from distinct channels; the directionality was blurred, less distinct.

I would recommend to use SoX resampler with foobar2000 also you should move slider in settings all the way to the right

 

[dmbr]

DS should work with just about any player including JRiver. I use JRiver for all my demo systems at meets, etc. Not sure why Out Of Your Head would not show up in JRiver. Could be an installation issue.

With any player using WASAPI,  you have to make sure you are converting all sample rates to 48kHz/24bit or 23bit before sending the audio to Out Of Your Head. If you don't do any sample rate conversion, Out Of Your Head will not work with any sample rates other than 48kHz/24bit or 32bit.

That's why I like JRiver since it will do the sample rate conversion in real-time for WASAPI and it also plays video/surround movies.

odd that foobar would detect it but not jriver, right?

 

[dmbr]

I would recommend to use SoX resampler with foobar2000 also you should move slider in settings all the way to the right

Interesting, I've had 95% recommended in the past...no clue why though. Thanks

 

[darinf]

I did try re sampling to 48, but to avail

 
I forgot, you must also set the number of channels to 7.1 in JRiver DSP settings. Here's the way I have it set to use Out Of Your Head WASAPI in JRiver:
 

 

odd that foobar would detect it but not jriver, right?

Yes, that is strange. I have not seen that before. In JRiver, to use DS, you just set JRiver's Audio Device set to "Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]". Then in the Windows/Sound Control Panel/Playback Device" set the Out Of Your Head Virtual Audio Device to the Default device.
 
Using Direct Sound in JRiver will not show Out Of Your Head in JRiver. You set the default device in the Windows Sound Control Panel.

 

[hoth]

Thanks Darin for answering my questions before purchase and for being so available on this forum.  I of course have some niggles with the product and provide a few caveats, but overall OOYH is just a great experience.  My niggles would be as follows:
 
- Need a true bypass (i.e., would like that clicking bypass does not just stop the processing but also removes all of the latency)
- On my portable system I get a latency of about 1,150ms.  The system is a Surface 2 pro.  Would be great if that could be decreased somehow. 
- EQ in the control panel for fine tuning as the bass (more than other frequencies) sometimes needs shaping
- The best preset is often not dependent on your system but rather on the material.  Therefore, you can't just buy one preset that you love and leave it always on.  As the material changes, you may need a new preset which will cost you another $25.  Perhaps there could be a way to package all presets together, or at least three or four to give you give coverage for rock/folk/classical/EDM.
- Jumping from preset to preset directly one after the other can mess up the experience.  I recommend giving your ears a slight break between presets to remove any coloring in your listening from the prior preset.  Kind of like eating sorbet in between courses to clean the pallet.  
- Try to listen a little more holistically rather than focusing on every element on its own, i.e, relax and enjoy.  I find the effect to be the most real in that way.   
 
I am still contemplating doing a more thorough write-up in more detail providing my experience on various setups including open and closed headphones as well as different levels of headphones.  I also have done a lot of thinking about whether I would consider OOYH "audiophile" or not and how I would characterize and categorize the coloring that OOYH introduces into the audio.  Those though are more theoretical and likely people would be most interested in practical considerations.  I'll just say that - with tweaking such as controlling sometimes boomy bass and re-balancing treble a bit - OOYH provides an authentic and very enjoyable experience on almost all levels and types of equipment.   
 
For now I am just trying to enjoy the ride and keeping myself from buying anymore speaker sets!

 

[olegausany]

Thanks Darin for answering my questions before purchase and for being so available on this forum.  I of course have some niggles with the product and provide a few caveats, but overall OOYH is just a great experience.  My niggles would be as follows:
 
- Need a true bypass (i.e., would like that clicking bypass does not just stop the processing but also removes all of the latency)
- On my portable system I get a latency of about 1,150ms.  The system is a Surface 2 pro.  Would be great if that could be decreased somehow. 
- EQ in the control panel for fine tuning as the bass (more than other frequencies) sometimes needs shaping
- The best preset is often not dependent on your system but rather on the material.  Therefore, you can't just buy one preset that you love and leave it always on.  As the material changes, you may need a new preset which will cost you another $25.  Perhaps there could be a way to package all presets together, or at least three or four to give you give coverage for rock/folk/classical/EDM.
- Jumping from preset to preset directly one after the other can mess up the experience.  I recommend giving your ears a slight break between presets to remove any coloring in your listening from the prior preset.  Kind of like eating sorbet in between courses to clean the pallet.  
- Try to listen a little more holistically rather than focusing on every element on its own, i.e, relax and enjoy.  I find the effect to be the most real in that way.   
 
I am still contemplating doing a more thorough write-up in more detail providing my experience on various setups including open and closed headphones as well as different levels of headphones.  I also have done a lot of thinking about whether I would consider OOYH "audiophile" or not and how I would characterize and categorize the coloring that OOYH introduces into the audio.  Those though are more theoretical and likely people would be most interested in practical considerations.  I'll just say that - with tweaking such as controlling sometimes boomy bass and re-balancing treble a bit - OOYH provides an authentic and very enjoyable experience on almost all levels and types of equipment.   
 
For now I am just trying to enjoy the ride and keeping myself from buying anymore speaker sets!

This program is intended to be used with computer not with the tablet pretending to be computer so you should be lucky it even works.
Before for me was exactly like you preset in use was depending on the recording played but now, after I uninstalled J River MC20 I just use Volti preset. Have no idea why is that right now. Also sometimes program gets stuck so all presets sound same while I always wait at least 30 seconds before switching to different preset and always single click on preset I want inside control panel window

 

[darinf]

  Thanks Darin for answering my questions before purchase and for being so available on this forum.  I of course have some niggles with the product and provide a few caveats, but overall OOYH is just a great experience.  My niggles would be as follows:
 
- Need a true bypass (i.e., would like that clicking bypass does not just stop the processing but also removes all of the latency)
- On my portable system I get a latency of about 1,150ms.  The system is a Surface 2 pro.  Would be great if that could be decreased somehow. 
- EQ in the control panel for fine tuning as the bass (more than other frequencies) sometimes needs shaping
- The best preset is often not dependent on your system but rather on the material.  Therefore, you can't just buy one preset that you love and leave it always on.  As the material changes, you may need a new preset which will cost you another $25.  Perhaps there could be a way to package all presets together, or at least three or four to give you give coverage for rock/folk/classical/EDM.
- Jumping from preset to preset directly one after the other can mess up the experience.  I recommend giving your ears a slight break between presets to remove any coloring in your listening from the prior preset.  Kind of like eating sorbet in between courses to clean the pallet.  
- Try to listen a little more holistically rather than focusing on every element on its own, i.e, relax and enjoy.  I find the effect to be the most real in that way.   
 
I am still contemplating doing a more thorough write-up in more detail providing my experience on various setups including open and closed headphones as well as different levels of headphones.  I also have done a lot of thinking about whether I would consider OOYH "audiophile" or not and how I would characterize and categorize the coloring that OOYH introduces into the audio.  Those though are more theoretical and likely people would be most interested in practical considerations.  I'll just say that - with tweaking such as controlling sometimes boomy bass and re-balancing treble a bit - OOYH provides an authentic and very enjoyable experience on almost all levels and types of equipment.   
 
For now I am just trying to enjoy the ride and keeping myself from buying anymore speaker sets!

Thanks for posting your feedback and impressions.
 
Part of the reason why the bypass mode still has the latency is to make it easier to compare processed vs. bypass. If bypass removed the latency then the sound would be out of sync to the video, if you are watching a video. If you want a full bypass, you can either switch output devices in your media player app or exit Out Of Your Head from the Out Of Your Head system tray menu.
 
We are working on lowering the latency in future versions. The Mac version is newer and is down to about 250ms on most Macs. We are hoping to get much lower latency than that eventually.
 
We are also looking at incorporating an EQ into the Out Of Your Head software. But EQ in your media player app should also work for now.
 
We do offer a discounted rate to purchase all the presets. You get a 30% discount if you buy all 23 presets, which works out to $475.30 instead of $679.
 
Thanks again for taking the time to post.

 

[darinf]

This program is intended to be used with computer not with the tablet pretending to be computer so you should be lucky it even works.
Before for me was exactly like you preset in use was depending on the recording played but now, after I uninstalled J River MC20 I just use Volti preset. Have no idea why is that right now. Also sometimes program gets stuck so all presets sound same while I always wait at least 30 seconds before switching to different preset and always single click on preset I want inside control panel window

Out Of Your Head is intended to be used on any computer that has enough processing power. Generally any computer using any processor faster than an Atom type processor will work. The form factor of the computer is not a factor. I use a Surface Pro as a demo system and it works great. It has an Intel i5 processor which is more than enough power to run Out Of Your Head. I imagine a Surface Pro 2 or 3 would work even better. I even use an old Core 2 Duo computer and it works fine too.
 
I have no idea why uninstalling JRiver would affect the Out Of Your Head installation. The preset files are all stored in the Out Of Your Head install directory. You can check to see if the preset files are still there. If not, then you can just uninstall and reinstall Out Of Your Head. Out Of Your Head looks in the install directory and lists all the preset files it finds when Out Of Your Head is launched. 

 

[olegausany]

This program is intended to be used with computer not with the tablet pretending to be computer so you should be lucky it even works.
Before for me was exactly like you preset in use was depending on the recording played but now, after I uninstalled J River MC20 I just use Volti preset. Have no idea why is that right now. Also sometimes program gets stuck so all presets sound same while I always wait at least 30 seconds before switching to different preset and always single click on preset I want inside control panel window

Out Of Your Head is intended to be used on any computer that has enough processing power. Generally any computer using any processor faster than an Atom type processor will work. The form factor of the computer is not a factor. I use a Surface Pro as a demo system and it works great. It has an Intel i5 processor which is more than enough power to run Out Of Your Head. I imagine a Surface Pro 2 or 3 would work even better. I even use an old Core 2 Duo computer and it works fine too.
 
I have no idea why uninstalling JRiver would affect the Out Of Your Head installation. The preset files are all stored in the Out Of Your Head install directory. You can check to see if the preset files are still there. If not, then you can just uninstall and reinstall Out Of Your Head. Out Of Your Head looks in the install directory and lists all the preset files it finds when Out Of Your Head is launched. 

The presets files are all here and are seen by the program and available. What I'm saying is that before I had to use different preset depending on the recording I'm playing but now I'm using Volti preset only. I don't know what exactly caused it to happen but I noticed it right after I uninstalled J River since it's trial was over. Now I got a way to remove hidden information about its trial time and after installation of the latest version, to see if I would be able finally play SACD ISOs, and found out that it sounds almost as good as with foobar2000 in wasapi mode but still I prefer to use Volti preset

 

[edwardsean]

- The best preset is often not dependent on your system but rather on the material.  Therefore, you can't just buy one preset that you love and leave it always on.  As the material changes, you may need a new preset which will cost you another $25.  Perhaps there could be a way to package all presets together, or at least three or four to give you give coverage for rock/folk/classical/EDM.

I'm so glad to have more and more people thinking seriously about OOYH.  It is a cutting edge technology, and therefore disorienting. We'll all benefit from serious discussion.
 
For my part, I happen to think that the best preset is firstly about your system, then about genre. I built my current system thinking of OOYH presets as another component to match for synergy. The presets vary wildly, in terms of soundstage presentation, tonal spectrum, etc. They have to differ, because all the sampled equipment and rooms vary in every sonic metric. So I had to match the virtual amp, speaker, room with my real DAC, amp, phones, cables, treating them as if they were real. It's not so unlike using a tube amp to warm up a cold analytic set of phones. The complexity only gets compounded by the fact that certain emulations work better than others because of HRTF and psychoacoustic factors.
 
I think the suitability of the resulting system for different genres of music is then no different from the fact that some equipment is just better with certain genres than others. So I want to get the OOYH effect right first, then match preset to genre. For example, some presets have much more bass which would make it better for those "drop the bass" genres. But, it the preset doesn't work well with my system (including my mind), if it sounds off, overly bright or muffled, etc. I wouldn't use it.
 
I definitely match presets to genre, but that's a second order function for me. I have a few presets that are just stunningly good in my system and "in my head." From there, just like in any real world system, there are trade offs. The preset with larger scale and more low end has less detail, that fits soundtracks for me. Another has smaller soundstage and less bass, but greater transparency and articulation, that's my jazz/acoustic preset. I love OOYH for this. It may cost $25/preset, but it's far cheaper and easier than switching real phones/speakers, amps, etc. Not being able to just set it and "leave it" is, to my mind, one of the wonderful things about OOYH. 
 
Personally, I would love to hear your musings, theoretical and practical!

 

[hoth]

This is definitely a serious piece of kit to be looked at seriously and I think those who discount it do so at their loss. I have had just so much flat out fun with this software.
 
Some more observations. You really have to be careful to match up the channels and mixing in the source material to the OOYH preset just like in a real world sound output system. That was a very cool find. Playing a 7.1 source in a 2.1 preset is no Bueno unless you compensate properly.
 
Another important item are the headphones. My T90s absolutely lice OOYH and the  GS1000s are only  slightly less enamored of it while my HD700s seem to throw up all over OOYH. I would be very curious to figure out why that is. I have a couple theories but need to experiment more.
 
The last thing is that I have two systems which I would like to use OOYH on. I would like to buy all presets but would need to do so for both systems. That's over $1,000.  I don't understand why the licensing must be per computer and not per user.
 
I am consistently thrilled with how Darin so quickly answers questions on here and cares about this great product. Kudos to you.
 
ETA:  I also tried OOYH with the TH600 closed backs and they were very nice. I think an open back sounds better though but OOYH was still able to blow the soundstage wide open on a closed back headphone since the headphone was coherent, had good soundstage itself and had good body. (That last sentence may provide my theory on why the HD700s didn't fare as well with OOYH)

 

[olegausany]

I'm really enjoying my HD800 with partial Annex mod with Volti preset

 

[darinf]

  This is definitely a serious piece of kit to be looked at seriously and I think those who discount it do so at their loss. I have had just so much flat out fun with this software.
 
Some more observations. You really have to be careful to match up the channels and mixing in the source material to the OOYH preset just like in a real world sound output system. That was a very cool find. Playing a 7.1 source in a 2.1 preset is no Bueno unless you compensate properly.
 
Another important item are the headphones. My T90s absolutely lice OOYH and the  GS1000s are only  slightly less enamored of it while my HD700s seem to throw up all over OOYH. I would be very curious to figure out why that is. I have a couple theories but need to experiment more.
 
The last thing is that I have two systems which I would like to use OOYH on. I would like to buy all presets but would need to do so for both systems. That's over $1,000.  I don't understand why the licensing must be per computer and not per user.
 
I am consistently thrilled with how Darin so quickly answers questions on here and cares about this great product. Kudos to you.
 
ETA:  I also tried OOYH with the TH600 closed backs and they were very nice. I think an open back sounds better though but OOYH was still able to blow the soundstage wide open on a closed back headphone since the headphone was coherent, had good soundstage itself and had good body. (That last sentence may provide my theory on why the HD700s didn't fare as well with OOYH)

Hi hoth, again, thank you for your feedback.
 
I have never heard HD700s, so I can't really comment on why they would not work as well. But the HD800's work really well due to their exceptional imaging and detail. 
 
I also use Out Of Your Head with closed headphones, IEMs, CIEMs, etc. and they all work very well. 
 
As far as buying all the presets, I never imagined many people would want or need all the presets and especially all the presets on two different computers. I always thought that people would pick one or two of their favorite presets and then buy those. The cost for doing that on two computers is fairly reasonable. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who have purchased all the presets.
 
But I agree that purchasing all the presets for two different computers is unreasonably high. I never thought anyone would want that. So what I can do is modify the pricing policy.
 
If anyone buys all the presets, in addition to the 30% discount, I will also provide a license for all the presets for a 2nd computer for no additional charge. It's tricky to make that happen automatically on our web store, but I will personally e-mail anyone who buys all the presets and manually generate the additional licenses.
 
-Darin

 

[hoth]

  Hi hoth, again, thank you for your feedback.
 
I have never heard HD700s, so I can't really comment on why they would not work as well. But the HD800's work really well due to their exceptional imaging and detail. 
 
I also use Out Of Your Head with closed headphones, IEMs, CIEMs, etc. and they all work very well. 
 
As far as buying all the presets, I never imagined many people would want or need all the presets and especially all the presets on two different computers. I always thought that people would pick one or two of their favorite presets and then buy those. The cost for doing that on two computers is fairly reasonable. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who have purchased all the presets.
 
But I agree that purchasing all the presets for two different computers is unreasonably high. I never thought anyone would want that. So what I can do is modify the pricing policy.
 
If anyone buys all the presets, in addition to the 30% discount, I will also provide a license for all the presets for a 2nd computer for no additional charge. It's tricky to make that happen automatically on our web store, but I will personally e-mail anyone who buys all the presets and manually generate the additional licenses.
 
-Darin

That is really fantastic and just incredible customer service.  My need for so many different presets is precisely because they are so good and so true to the actual spaces.  I have listened to music in so many environments, including some of the best music recording studios.  In fact, I had recorded lots of music in the Genelec studio environment.  When I put that preset on, I was magically transported to exactly that studio.  It was absolutely uncanny how I felt you captured the essence of the Genelec monitor.   When I listen to your presets, I get transported to each of those places that you recorded.  So I am not happy just going to one or two places.  The music I listen to dictates different venues for different material.  I need it all , 

 

[edwardsean]

I also love the HD800 with OOYH. It's shy of electrostatic speed (which is the ideal) but amazingly quick as a dynamic. The HD800 imaging prowess dovetails right into OOYH technology and creates a tremendously satisfying, life-rendering. I used to try and wring out every last inch of soundstage dimension from my system. Post-OOYH, I now think in terms of feet and yards instead of inches. 
 
I think open-back/full-size just work best in recreating a loudspeaker setup. However, my IEMs also become wide open with OOYH and are able to fill the room. Soundstage was always the place IEMs fell down when compared to full-size headphones, and OOYH does a lot to equalize the situation. 
 
Olegausany, I'm going to spend some more time with the Volti preset to see if I can't hear what you hear.