[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif As an overall conclusion from my impressions I think the Opera is still worth its money because it has a great dac and great amp in one. The HD 650 is an exception because running it balanced is so easy, which is why I wouldn't really recommend the Opera if the intention is to use it with the HD 650 (unless you have a world-class source which doesn't have XLR outs).

I think that's not an adequate conclusion. The Apogee doesn't represent a balanced amp in the auditioned configuration -- it's a DAC in direct-coupling with the headphone. I think that's the main advantage in terms of signal accuracy, not necessarily the balanced drive per se. So I doubt that any balanced amp would be clearly superior to the Opera (with its «active ground» mimicking the advantage of balanced drive), since it would have to deal with the same handicap as the Opera: an additional amplification stage. After all the well-respected DynaMight didn't sound as good in my system as the Opera sounds now. And the same applies to the HeadCode. To my ears, at least.
.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif (...) in that the direct connection (of the HD 650 to the Apogee's XLR outputs) is unbeatable when it comes to signal accuracy. No doubt about it. A further amplification stage can only degrade the signal, and be it in a euphonic way. And that's exactly what the Opera does to some degree. Funny, I was maybe the first direct-connection advocate, and sometimes I felt appointed to preach the truth about amps -- how most of them color the sound in a pleasing way, and more expensive doesn't mean more true to the original signal. Because the latter, fed to a headphone directly, doesn't sound particularly pleasing or exciting, even though it shows its superiority in every single sonic criterion.

Marcel, I absolutely agree that a direct connection is more "direct". One other thing I'd like to point out, however, is that the line out needs to have the muscles and impedance to drive the headphones properly and truthfully and in that regard the Apogee, I think, is an excellent choice. With its "ultra-low output impedance" (manual) and high current output, it's the perfect candidate for such a direct connection setup. My, in terms of redbook performance, still superior custom Marantz cdp just didn't sound quite right from its line out due to (according to Mr. Gessner) its high output impedance and I had to digitally lower the volume resulting in (at least theoretical) signal loss.

Quote:

Not a PRAT monster by no means, which I wouldn't appreciate to begin with, just the music how it was meant to be.

You know that I'll have to disagree with the latter comment. But you can feel free to lend me the Opera for some extended listening.

Quote:

I agree that the direct connection to the Apogee offers even better detail and control, larger soundstage and better instrument placement -- but together with its slight treble emphasis it's not a merely enjoyable experience. It just lacks the flowing nature of the Opera, its liquid-smoothness and clarity. Instead it puts an emphasis on detail and focus, which makes the sound a bit dry for my taste.

Yep, I think this is one of the moments where objective observations have to give way to subject perception and, above all, appreciation. In fact, I don't perceive such a strong emphasis on detail like the DAC1 or Dynamight had for example. In any case, the Opera is too liquid/polished for me (I'd almos call it dull sometimes), and I thought you were the one against such liquidity such as in electrostats.

Quote:

I think that's not an adequate conclusion. The Apogee doesn't represent a balanced amp in the auditioned configuration -- it's a DAC in direct-coupling with the headphone. I think that's the main advantage in terms of signal accuracy, not necessarily the balanced drive per se. So I doubt that any balanced amp would be clearly superior to the Opera (with its «active ground» mimicking the advantage of balanced drive), since it would have to deal with the same handicap as the Opera: an additional amplification stage.

My conclusion was drawn from a purely financial perspective. What I meant to say is that with $1000 and a pair of HD 650 starting from point zero, I would go for the Apogee. If I already had an excellent source as you have, the situation would be different of course. On the other hand, one could always sell the existing source.

Quote:

After all the well-respected DynaMight didn't sound as good in my system as the Opera sounds now. And the same applies to the HeadCode. To my ears, at least.

I agree about the Dynamight (as evidenced and documented in the Corda Aria thread) but I still think that Headcode Triad fed by the custom Marantz offered the best headphone experience I ever had in my system and clearly more pleasant than either my current Apogee or the Corda Opera. It was natural-sounding beyond anything I've heard. But as we discussed today, our measuring sticks are rather different: I mostly strive for soundstage, focus, air, a touch of intimacy and warmth in timbre, and PRaT. And I don't mind euphonic colorations as long as they're good.

Anyways, you know I'm really happy for you that you like the Corda!

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calaf /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder how much of this was due to the difference between the two amps and how much was coming from driving the Senns balanced. I still remember two years ago at the San Jose meet sitting stunned in front of a Singlepower Supra after listening to a single ended HD600 and to a balanced one, both connected to the same amp.

Very good point although Jan explicitly states that "[size=x-small]The OPERA is the first amplifier with a balanced headphone ground and offers most of the advantages of a true balanced headphone setup without the need of balanced connections"[/size]. I'm not quite sure what he means by "balanced ground" though. If it's an active ground, then I think the PPA, M3 and Headcode have that, too. But it's technical stuff and not really my domain to comment on.

Also, I used to think that balanced didn't have anything to do with it but there might be something after all. It doesn't have to be necessarily balanced, however, as my Headcode Triad offered the same virtues. Then again, the Triad had an active ground with its own power supply et. al, and may therefore yield the same results as balanced operation. Don't want to stir up yet another balanced/single-ended discussion though, so I simply tend to regard things from a purely financial perspective to draw away from the theoretical and, in my opinion, somewhat meaningless discussion from a consumer's point of view. I'll take whatever sounds best for my money's worth.

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very good point although Jan explicitly states that "[size=x-small]The OPERA is the first amplifier with a balanced headphone ground and offers most of the advantages of a true balanced headphone setup without the need of balanced connections"[/size]. I'm not quite sure what he means by "balanced ground" though. If it's an active ground, then I think the PPA, M3 and Headcode have that, too. But it's technical stuff and not really my domain to comment on.

I had a brief email exchange with Jan Meier about balanced ground. From that and from his description on his web site, my conclusion is that balanced ground does not particularly help with soundstage. In fact channel separation should be worse than in a standard floating ground amp (Jan quoted me > 50db). To my hears, driving the K701 in my setup, the soundstage of the Opera does not look constricted at all, on the contrary. Perhaps if feels a bit 2D, but, then again, this may be due to the cans: with the K340 the imaging is so vivid and realistic that I haven't felt the need to turn on crossfeed.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know that I'll have to disagree with the latter comment. But you can feel free to lend me the Opera for some extended listening.

Not a chance! Not at the moment.

Quote:

Yep, I think this is one of the moments where objective observations have to give way to subject perception and, above all, appreciation. The Opera is too liquid/polished for me, and I thought you were the one against such liquidity such as in electrostats.

I wouldn't call the characteristic of typical (Stax) electrostats liquid-smooth, there's rather a metallic sounding glare. Liquid-smoothness on the other hand can sound very pleasing and natural -- in healthy doses. I also favor this characteristic with my magnet-wire cables since quite a while. And the Opera by far misses the line to blatant euphony. In turn the direct-connection to the Apogee sounded too dry for my taste.

Quote:

My conclusion was drawn from a purely financial perspective. What I meant to say is that with $1000 and a pair of HD 650 starting from point zero, I would go for the Apogee. If I already had an excellent source, the situation would be different of course. On the other hand, you can always sell the existing source.

This would imply that you like the specific sound of the Apogee. Whereas I think many people would, there may be one or the other who prefer a smoother sound.

Quote:

I agree about the Dynamight (as evidenced and documented in the Corda Aria thread) but I still think that Headcode Triad fed by the custom Marantz was the best headphone experience I ever had in my system and clearly more pleasant than either my current Apogee or the Corda Opera. It was natural-sounding beyond anything I've heard. But as we discussed today, our measuring sticks are rather different: I mostly strive for soundstage, focus, air, a touch of intimacy and warmth in timbre, and PRaT.

A clear case of different sonic ideals. It doesn't hurt. I didn't perceive the HeadCode as natural -- nor integrated -- sounding and even preferred the Aria in the end. But as you know, soundstage isn't my first criterion, and that's where the HeadCode shone, while I think the Opera has higher resolution and sounds more natural.


Quote:

Originally Posted by calaf /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder how much of this was due to the difference between the two amps and how much was coming from driving the Senns balanced. I still remember two years ago at the San Jose meet sitting stunned in front of a Singlepower Supra after listening to a single ended HD600 and to a balanced one, both connected to the same amp. If you allow me to quote myself, back then I wrote

The Opera has incredible detail and resolution -- which I think may be due to the balanced- or active-ground concept. I haven't heard a conventional headphone amp excelling equally in these fields. I for one think the main advantage of the Apogee is the direct drive, not the balanced drive. Remember: no additional amplification stage, no signal degradation, maximum accuracy!
.

 

[LouT]

Crossfeed.......hmm interesting stuff this is. A first for me.

My first impression was negative. It does indeed narrow the soundstage, and when looking for change, it is the most apparent change. Switching between the 2 had me feeling that crossfeed was taking away some of the big hall feeling and openness.

After further listening I came to realize that what was lost in width I was gaining in depth. The crossfeed might not sound "better" yet it is so much more "real" sounding. Going from crossfeed back to off was a bit like switching to simulated concert mode on the crazy surround amps. Nice perhaps to some, as it is pleasing, but it lacked realness. Soo I am perplexed that the straight off actually sounds like the simulated mode now vs the simulated crossfeed? crazy. But hey... headphones are not all that real to begin with. I mean a speaker in isolation in each ear, not a lot of sound waves interacting with eachother positively or negatively. So anything that makes more realness is making me sold.

Playing Chet Baker with low gain, big z, and crossfeed had me feeling like I was in that coffee shop near the back of the room with a live performance. Now that is some dreamy listening eyes closed. The realness was there.

Vocals being mostly centered makes the crossfeed less apparent for sure, but when the band picks up around the vocals it becomes very evident. Well not very, but if you are listening for the instruments or focusing on them it is there. So upclose and wide vs farback and narrow, the room felt narrower......perhaps a bit of a bold uneducated statement, but captures 90% of it for me. Neither square, both rectagles. (wide room, long room).

Then again not all recordings are in a big open room/hall so while assesing soundstage consider all aspects and not just width.

HD650s, wave file, USB!! ok laugh. I'll hook up the Ikemi next.

Edit: Mine is number 12 btw

Lou

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

I look forward to seeing what the Opera can do some time soon, thanks to good ol' Todd and his loaner program. I want to see if the synergy with the DT990 05 is all it's been cracked up to be

Considering that I started my Head-fi journey with Jan's first amp, the HA1mkI, it will be quite interesting to see what his latest and greatest can do, DAC included!

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif To put things in perspective: No amp will be able to beat the Apogee Mini-DAC in direct connection when it comes to signal accuracy, no matter how expensive. This would be an unfair claim. But apart from this circumstance, I'm currently so happy with the sound from the Opera that I don't care for rationalizations. It provides the best headphone sound I've heard so far. It took more than 300 hours of burn-in to get this far, though..

The Apogee DAC seems like quite a bargain.
The Opera seems very niche.

It would be nice if Meier offered a true balanced amplifier with seperate power supply and DAC for those that do not need a compact all-in-one. I'm going to sit on the sidelines for now or at least until more products make it to market.

 

[ManAtWork]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Crossfeed.......hmm interesting stuff this is. A first for me. My first impression was negative. It does indeed narrow the soundstage, and when looking for change, it is the most apparent change. Switching between the 2 had me feeling that crossfeed was taking away some of the big hall feeling and openness.

No, it doesn't really affect the soundstage comes with the recording. The crossfeed only reproduces the soundstage more closely to the natural. Think about it, when you hear a band singing in front of you, all of them are *in front* of you. However, since the characteristic of headphone - the sound comes from both ends, so you will hear some instruments in either side only. This is not the real soundstage, and crossfeed is to rectify this issue to be more natural and comfortable for listening. Thus, when listening the crossfeed the first several times, don't insist to think the original soundstage is the correct one and use it as 'standard'. Then you will be able find that the sound from crossfeed is more enjoyable.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Apogee DAC seems like quite a bargain. The Opera seems very niche. It would be nice if Meier offered a true balanced amplifier with seperate power supply and DAC for those that do not need a compact all-in-one. I'm going to sit on the sidelines for now or at least until more products make it to market.

I would just like to see the amp section of the Opera offered without the DAC and the additional inputs - i.e., a replacement for the HA-2 mkII/SE.

 

[ManAtWork]

After waiting for two weeks, my Opera finally arrived with serial #38. The sound really impressive started from the first minute. Obvously, it is fully synergy with my DT880(05), and provides a warmer, richer sound. It doesn't affect the strengths of DT880 in details, soundstage and good ambiance. However, the treble is much better controlled and mellow. I can hear the details much clear as the backgound seems be more quiet. It has been near 7 hours broken-in, and the bass starts be deeper. The sound characteristic of the Opera is very close to the typical tube sound but better in details and speed. A really nice amp without any regret. Personally, I think the quality it comes worth every cent I paid. Will tried the USB/DAC tomorrow when have more time after the first 24 hours break-in.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManAtWork /img/forum/go_quote.gif After waiting for two weeks, my Opera finally arrived with serial #38. The sound really impressive started from the first minute. Obvously, it is fully synergy with my DT880(05), and provides a warmer, richer sound. It doesn't affect the strengths of DT880 in details, soundstage and good ambiance. However, the treble is much better controlled and mellow. I can hear the details much clear as the backgound seems be more quiet. It has been near 7 hours broken-in, and the bass starts be deeper. The sound characteristic of the Opera is very close to the typical tube sound but better in details and speed. A really nice amp without any regret. Personally, I think the quality it comes worth every cent I paid. Will tried the USB/DAC tomorrow when have more time after the first 24 hours break-in.

Congrats!

Now be prepared to hear the sound getting even better up to the 300-hour mark!
.

 

[LouT]

The DAC

I am very impressed by the Operas DAC. After a/b with the mode switch, with a wave file vs the cd on my player the results are better than I was expecting.

My player is no slouch as many can atest to. Linn has a decent reputation for cd playback. Now granted the operas chip is much newer, but it costs 1/4!!!

The Ikemi is more musical, Diana Kralls voice more sultry/sexy sounding. Yet the difference is quite small. Small enough that I am sure it will kick the crap out of many players. Ikemi is known to be a strong candidate for musicality and smoothness, as the Opera seems to exploit as well.

I'd say the opera is equal on accuracy, detail, slightly smaller on soundstage resolution, and very smooth...although the Ikemis mids out smoothed it! With classical the difference was even smaller, since the telling vocals are absent.

I am looking forward to others results, especially from dac to player. If you have not tried the usb off hard drive spend some time on it and be ready to cry if you spent 2k on a player....I am thinking you will need more than 2k to do better.

Stand alone dacs are more likely to give a price ratio benefit. (over a cd player)

Fantastic job Jan on an all in 1 product.

Lou

 

[ManAtWork]

Yes, I had tried the DAC with USB connected to my PC, and used it to play all those audio files through Foobar2K. It is much better than the X-Fi even it has been premium level PC audio card. Details are richer. Since I haven't any other DAC, I cannot compare it with other DAC, but at least this DAC works very well and value added to the Opera.

 

[onecm]

Received my opera today, generally good initial sonic impressions but will wait for burn in. There's a problem though..

When using the DAC via coaxial from my CDP, it clicks every few seconds (like the click between tracks).

Can anyone explain or help me with this before I email Jan?

Edit: Problem has disappeared as mysteriously as it arrived.