[yeah]

Hello,

I am new to all this so please bear with me

. I have spent time reading this forum and my choices are down to these two soundcards.

I spend the most amount of time listening to music while using my computer. I do play a few games occasionally(mostly racing sims, strategy or diablo-like games). I am unable to play FPS now as my computer is more than 5 years old, but may start playing a little once I upgrade at the end of this year or in the beginning of next year.

I plan to buy a pair of speakers such as Audioengine A5 or Swan M200MkII(I) to complement these soundcards.

Please advise me regarding which soundcard to purchase. Thanks in advance!

 

[leeperry]

the drivers on the Onkyo are miles better, no contest! automatic sample rate, exclusive mode KS, no resident apps, rock stable...the complete opposite of the Asus actually

it's also got the VLSC in-house tech to improve oversampling...OTOH op-amps are not swappable, there's no HP out I think? and prolly the RMAA measurements don't look as good, but luckily you don't listen to raw sinewaves

and the Onkyo SE200PCI-LTD is hell pricey! I'd rather go for this one for pretty much the same price: Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 Sound Card

 

[ROBSCIX]

@Lee, you had better check your prices again.

@OP, The ST has many fans around here, especially whne you consider modding the opamps and improving the sound.
I have not heard the Onkyo for quite some time and I have never tested it against a STs o I cannot comment.
You can compare their specs as this should help you somewhat in gauging the differences. You should look around the net to find more detailed specifications.
The Onkyo use the Wolfson WM8740 which is spec's for about 117 SNR MAX.
The ST Uses a Burr Brown PCM 1794A which is spec'd for about 127 SNR MAX.

The ST also has the ability to go surround mode with addition of an add in card. The ONKYO has no replacable opamps but you could replace the opamps with sokcet and then you could swap opamps.

They both seem to use good quality caps through out nd both have isolation between sections which is good.
Can you find reviews on both? The ST is still rather new so you may have to wait to read reviews for it.
Here is a small review on Head-fi for the Onkyo -> LINK

 

[sonci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can compare their specs as this should help you somewhat in gauging the differences. You should look around the net to find more detailed specifications. The Onkyo use the Wolfson WM8740 which is spec's for about 117 SNR MAX. The ST Uses a Burr Brown PCM 1794A which is spec'd for about 127 SNR MAX. -> LINK

Comparing their specs is nul,
otherwise the audio card would be better than a high end DAC

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Comparing their specs is nul, otherwise the audio card would be better than a high end DAC

c'mon, some ppl are working here...don't break their fluff, plus if you listen as loud as 117dB on a regular basis, 127dB SNR has to be better...right

 

[sonci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif c'mon, some ppl are working here...don't break their fluff, plus if you listen as loud as 117dB on a regular basis, 127dB SNR has to be better...right

Sorry

btw, what has happened to the Cantatis Thread, it has been blocked ,Why?
What, have you done?

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Comparing their specs is nul, otherwise the audio card would be better than a high end DAC

I know they don't tell the whole story but they do play a part or else they wouldn't be used. I gave the guy points on both cards. I think it's a hard call as it depends on what he is after. I also pointed him to some info on the Onkyo from another member. Both cards have good and bad design points.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif c'mon, some ppl are working here...don't break their fluff, plus if you listen as loud as 117dB on a regular basis, 127dB SNR has to be better...right

I think you need to study the topic again as your way off the mark.

 

[anetode]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Comparing their specs is nul, otherwise the audio card would be better than a high end DAC

And some of them are. Spec and performance measure wise, of course, not um... esoteric appeal or desk bling

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry btw, what has happened to the Cantatis Thread, it has been blocked ,Why? What, have you done?

lol nothing, apparently the guy was a shill! just like many other ppl on this forum

look at his profile, he's been banned and his posts deleted: Head-Fi: View Profile: ClothEars

BTW, some food for thoughts: iXBT Labs - ASUS Xonar D2 Sound Card
Quote:

ASUS apparently fights Creative with the same marketing weapon - high SNR. Measured in the standard de factor, Audio Precision, the ASUS D2 demonstrates 118 dBA, while the Creative Elite Pro offers 116 dBA. In fact, SNR values above -100 dBA do not make practical sense. Such values are lower than quantization noise power of a 16 bit signal with TPDF (Triangular Probability Density Function). As no one has complained about noises in AudioCDs yet, high SNR for audio playback is overkill.

and most op-amps have a max CMRR of 110/120dB anyway..

 

[thoppa]

Hi,

Just saw this thread - I have both cards. I've modded the hell out of my ST and the SE-200PCI is, at the moment, standard.

The first thing you'd notice from comparing the the RCA out is that the Onkyo is quite warm with a very fluid smooth sound, and although the details are there, they are not very forward. It's a very nice presentation and gives great stereo-imaging despite the slightly quiet treble response. The Asus is almost exactly the opposite in terms of sound balance - the treble is quite prominent and in standard form the headphone output is a tad too aggressive. The RCA out is fine but not quite as appealing as the Onkyo's. The Onkyo uses SiilmicII output caps (one of my all time favourites) and the Asus uses Nichicon FG which are good but not amazing caps IMO. Both can be improved with a fast bypass cap like a Mundorf Supreme .33uF or thereabouts.

Very importantly, the ST allows a quick op amp swap to completely change the sound so if you pop in some OPA2132PA you'll get something similar to the Onkyo but without the great soundstage. Try some LME49720HA and you'll get the soundstage maxxed out...and.... I could go on but you get the idea. To mod the sound on the Onkyo will require soldering and invalidating the warranty.

The spdif out is very interesting. The Onkyo seems to have much less jitter that the ST despite the ST having a jitter reduction chip. I modded my ST and now I can't honestly tell the difference between the standard Onkyo and the modded ST. I might give the edge to the ST but it's really hard to say for sure as I can't do instant a-b comparisons.

So it seems to me the Onkyo is actually more of a hi-fi card that the ST but the ST is much easier to customise to make it sound how you'd like. Just looking at the design, component selection and manufacture, you can see the Onkyo engineers followed the audiophile hi-fi path and the ST engineers cut-and-paste from Texas Instruments datasheets ( and that included putting smt caps in the feedback loop for the I/V op amps to limit their bandwidth - a definite no-no in audiophile terms - and so I felt I had to remove them and fit metallised polypropylene caps. )

The ST has an ASIO driver - very important for older Windows OS like XP. The Onkyo doesn't so you'll have to set up ASIO4ALL as a bridge driver.

The Onkyo has an spdif in and supports 7.1 speakers already. The ST has a headphone amp and requires an add-on board for 7.1 output to speakers.

I personally don't think you can go wrong with either and although I use the ST most of the time, I'm not about to part with my SE-200 either.

Hope this helps, if I'm not too late.

 

[leeperry]

yep, the Onkyo has KS...so that's cool.

I think the problem w/ the Asus is that they only have a 24MHz clock...so jitter occurs when you want a 22kHz multiple.

the Envy24 DSP requires both a 22 and a 24MHz clocks in its PCB design, jitter is way lower.

and yes, all those new cards are more agressive than the Onkyo/Prodigy. I don't like an agressive sound w/ grinding trebles...I want it smooth and laid back

 

[sonci]

Do you know which was produced first, the Xonar series or the SE200?

Just want to know, who invented the EMI shield for audio cards..

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, Just saw this thread - I have both cards. I've modded the hell out of my ST and the SE-200PCI is, at the moment, standard. The first thing you'd notice from comparing the the RCA out is that the Onkyo is quite warm with a very fluid smooth sound, and although the details are there, they are not very forward. It's a very nice presentation and gives great stereo-imaging despite the slightly quiet treble response. The Asus is almost exactly the opposite in terms of sound balance - the treble is quite prominent and in standard form the headphone output is a tad too aggressive. The RCA out is fine but not quite as appealing as the Onkyo's. The Onkyo uses SiilmicII output caps (one of my all time favourites) and the Asus uses Nichicon FG which are good but not amazing caps IMO. Both can be improved with a fast bypass cap like a Mundorf Supreme .33uF or thereabouts. Very importantly, the ST allows a quick op amp swap to completely change the sound so if you pop in some OPA2132PA you'll get something similar to the Onkyo but without the great soundstage. Try some LME49720HA and you'll get the soundstage maxxed out...and.... I could go on but you get the idea. To mod the sound on the Onkyo will require soldering and invalidating the warranty. The spdif out is very interesting. The Onkyo seems to have much less jitter that the ST despite the ST having a jitter reduction chip. I modded my ST and now I can't honestly tell the difference between the standard Onkyo and the modded ST. I might give the edge to the ST but it's really hard to say for sure as I can't do instant a-b comparisons. So it seems to me the Onkyo is actually more of a hi-fi card that the ST but the ST is much easier to customise to make it sound how you'd like. Just looking at the design, component selection and manufacture, you can see the Onkyo engineers followed the audiophile hi-fi path and the ST engineers cut-and-paste from Texas Instruments datasheets ( and that included putting smt caps in the feedback loop for the I/V op amps to limit their bandwidth - a definite no-no in audiophile terms - and so I felt I had to remove them and fit metallised polypropylene caps. ) The ST has an ASIO driver - very important for older Windows OS like XP. The Onkyo doesn't so you'll have to set up ASIO4ALL as a bridge driver. The Onkyo has an spdif in and supports 7.1 speakers already. The ST has a headphone amp and requires an add-on board for 7.1 output to speakers. I personally don't think you can go wrong with either and although I use the ST most of the time, I'm not about to part with my SE-200 either. Hope this helps, if I'm not too late.

How did the cap modswork out for you?
Ah, dual 8599's driving a 8620 buffer. Nice. I want to add a Onkyo to my collection but have yet to get around to it.

 

[mojave]

I'm looking for a 7.1 card with 95% of the use for two channel audio. I had planned to get the Essence ST, but I want a card that supports 176.4 kHz. How is the 7.1 out of the Onkyo? Do you still use the RCA's for the mains and the breakout cable for the surrounds? Are the drivers in English?