[wallijonn]

CD3000/RKV
K1000/nOrh
HD600/Melos

me, I use a Parasound HCA1000 with all of my headphones. because it is all I can afford. i have to live with it. no headphone equipment envy here. i'm too much of a pragmatist. (although I still want a DAC

)

 

[lkmich]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti This is simply untrue, even at $300-$400 there are significant differences among products that lend themselves more to certain kinds of music than others. This does not diminish significantly until you near $1000.

But if you buy a product because it lends itself to one kind of music, aren't you buying a headphone that has chosen to emphasize, rather than minimize, its flaws? Grados are a case in point. They're "good for rock" but "bad for classical" in part because they have artificially tipped up treble and don't provide the detail that others, like the HD600, do.

If a headphone has been designed to be inaccurate and sacrifices certain sounds just to make rock sound different that it really is, that seems like a red flag to me.

Sins of omission v. commission, I guess.

Caveat-never heard RS or HP series Grados, so no flames please.

 

[Matthew-Spaltro]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl If a particular set of cans sounds good on rock but bad on classical, I would say that that phone is not a "good" phone by definition. Mark

Whoops. That excludes the Grado line

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by minya Actually, that is the point. Price and quality (or, to be more specific, satisfaction) do not go hand-in-hand. I think anyone who has read Nik's posts on this board will understand that. - Chris

Not to belabour the point, but the better the phone, the more it's going to cost. You're NOT going to get the quality of a top of the line Sony or Sennheiser in their cheaper offerings. We've discussed this before.

 

[LobsterSan]

One person's flaw is another person's strength.

I'm with all the people that have been touting individual experience and preference as the ultimate bar of satisfaction. Some people will only listen to a couple genres of music, and so they will tend to like the sound of certain cans vs. that of others. Others may like all genres, and will perhaps (PERHAPS) prefer a more neutral and accurate sound. If you want the "do it all" system, go for that one headphone/one amp combo and be content. But I would argue that many people might have a more pleasurable experience (based on personal preference) listening to certain types of music with certain types of headphones.

Whose signature is it that goes, "If it sounds good, it IS good"?

 

[nanahachi]

Lobster, I've got to agree


As for that tag-line, I'm pretty sure that belongs to JMT, quoting Duke Ellington

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by lkmich But if you buy a product because it lends itself to one kind of music, aren't you buying a headphone that has chosen to emphasize, rather than minimize, its flaws? Sins of omission v. commission, I guess. Caveat-never heard RS or HP series Grados, so no flames please.

It has long been recognized in speakers the lesser sin is one of omission, but the same goes for headphones. If two headphones (a cheap one and a good one) both do an excellent job over most of the frequency range (are flat from say 100Hz-12kHz) and the cheaper one rolls off gently above and below these points, while the more expensive ones reach all the way down to the Stygian depths and reaches the summits too, they'll both be similar in overall sound balance, but imaging, speed, etc still may differ, and THIS is what you pay dearly for.

 

[LobsterSan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Not to belabour the point, but the better the phone, the more it's going to cost. You're NOT going to get the quality of a top of the line Sony or Sennheiser in their cheaper offerings. We've discussed this before.

Actually, I find this to be not necessarily true. Take for example the MDR-V700 at $150 and compare it to the MDR-V6 at $80. Now, I have not heard the V700, but I have read countless opinions favoring other, cheaper headphones.

Another example is the ksc-35, originally about $20, which many people think bests many higher-priced headphones.

As well, there was a head-fier who felt his ksc-50 were better than his eggo d66. Blasphemy? Perhaps. Is he wrong? No, because it is his preference.

Even if someone were to prefer, say, the $50 portapros to the $250 etymotic er-4s, is he wrong? No, maybe he just doesn't like sticking things in his ears and prefers a more colorful sound with impactful bass, and is willing to sacrifice detail and neutrality as a result.

It's hard to quantify what is necessarily better, since audio is so subjective. Maybe if you were talking about which headphones had the best statistical readouts or the best frequency response, then you could talk about the technical benefits or the best headphone based on technical/mechanical merits. But when preferences are thrown into the mix, who's to say that any headphone is better than another (besides the obvious undesirable traits -- which some may actually prefer). I have a feeling there are quite a few people in this world who actually prefer the bloated and muffled sound of some headphones against the sound of other more "refined" headphones.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by LobsterSan Actually, I find this to be not necessarily true. Take for example the MDR-V700 at $150 and compare it to the MDR-V6 at $80. Now, I have not heard the V700, but I have read countless opinions favoring other, cheaper headphones.

Two points:

1. The MDR-V700DJ is not 'top of the line' by a wide margin.

2. You're not following what I said, which was: "You're NOT going to get the quality of a top of the line Sony or Sennheiser in their cheaper offerings. We've discussed this before."

That you must PREFER the more expensive one was not an assertion I made there, now is it?

 

[Audio-Me]

I also agree with grinch, you might prefer different sound characteristics for different types of music, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of something. As in it's quite moronic to use "laid back sucks" or "aggressive blows farts" as a variable when judging the performance level of headphones.

 

[bangraman]

It's being on here and going to Head-Fi meets that kills any satisfaction of your system and feeds upgradeitis! Personally, I think it's all relative and that someone with an HD600 and a decent Headroom amp for example will probably think it is a very good setup...


Then stick them here, and they'll read about the Grados and think "Hey, that sounds good", try it an indeed agree that there's a positive difference for their main style of music. Then they'll read about something else, etc etc... Then it's 'sorry about your wallet'. I think we have to face the fact that by reviewing or giving opinions, we're basically pimps

To answer the first question however, I will say that out of all the phones I've had or tried, a CD3000 with a good solid state and a not-overbright source, or an HD600 with Cardas and something dynamic and interesting both amp and source wise behind it would probably be the best all-rounders.



But when you get to our level of addiction, it seems to be necessary to have the headphone equivalent of a Jeep, a Ferrari, a Mercedes, a minivan and a couple of motorbikes in the garage.

 

[markl]

Quote:

Actually, that is the point. Price and quality (or, to be more specific, satisfaction) do not go hand-in-hand. I think anyone who has read Nik's posts on this board will understand that.

I don't want to speak for Nik, but you are talking about a guy with $20K source hooked up to his amp. That source will reveal flaws in virtually any amp. He is also a man looking for that last .0000000000000000000000001% performance out of his R10s. The idea that his expensive custom amp for the R10s was "bad" is laughable to me (no I haven't heard it). Although Nik rejected it, doesn't mean you or I would. We'd probably have a brain hemmorage listening to that set-up with his "disappointing amp". Anyway, I'd be willing to bet his expensive custom amp is a damn sight better than any amp you or I have ever heard or ever will.

And I'm sorry, but IMO, the general rule that applies to everything in life also applies to audio gear and headphones: better costs more.
Quote:

Remember: I for one use one preferred headphone most of the time (at home) for all music – but how can you claim it's the only correct or mature approach? I can easily understand people who like different phones for different genres, Who cares!? BTW I guess even the R10 isn't perfect in every regard. Is it?

R10 is not perfect, but it certainly has the fewest imperfections to my ears of any phone I've heard. It excels at any kind of music.
Quote:

This is simply untrue, even at $300-$400 there are significant differences among products that lend themselves more to certain kinds of music than others. This does not diminish significantly until you near $1000.

Depends on what you mean and who you ask. To me, the HD600 is just too soft and polite all around to do justice with rock the way I happen to like it. But there are plenty of people here with that phone who LOVE it for rock and use it only for that purpose.

Mark

 

[Matthew-Spaltro]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Depends on what you mean and who you ask. To me, the HD600 is just too soft and polite all around to do justice with rock the way I happen to like it. But there are plenty of people here with that phone who LOVE it for rock and use it only for that purpose. Mark

This is very true. I use the Senn exclusive for rock music and enjoy it very much. Just because it's laid back does not make it less enjoyable for rock. Quite the opposite for me.

 

[shivohum]

Three Amps for the 'Lectrostats in markets grey,
Seven for the Germans behind brightest veils,
Nine for Portables doomed to die,
One for the wooden King on his wooden throne
In the Land of Headphones where the Sources howl.
One Phone to rule them all, One Phone to find them,
One Amp to bring them all and to all music bind them
In the Land of Headphones where the Sources howl.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

quote: This is simply untrue, even at $300-$400 there are significant differences among products that lend themselves more to certain kinds of music than others. This does not diminish significantly until you near $1000. Depends on what you mean and who you ask. To me, the HD600 is just too soft and polite all around to do justice with rock the way I happen to like it. But there are plenty of people here with that phone who LOVE it for rock and use it only for that purpose. Mark [/B]

What I was saying was that there are gross differences in phones even at $300-$400 level, and those gross differences start to diminish as you go up the price/quality scale (i.e., as you approach perfection). That you never reach perfection means that there are still some differences even at the highest price/quality levels, but they are of a lesser magnitude.