[goldendarko]

This is easily the best I've ever heard my Shure's, though it still seems silly to use IEM's with this thing, considering my LCD-3F's are sitting right here looking at me.

 

[magiccabbage]

Great to see all the impressions coming out. Maybe you guys could take some pics of your Rag setups - headphones and speakers?
 
Could someone try HD800/Rag with some trumpet jazz as a test for treble harshness? Like maybe Wynton Marsalis "the legend of buddy Bolden" from "live at the village vangaurd" or something like that? 

 

[keemniloc]

Guys...this comes up a lot...when will head-fi at large realize that where you are on the volume knob rotation has very little correlation to how much of the power available in the amp you are currently "using"

 
Don't blame head-fi at large, just me! I did initially assume that the Ragnarok was a lower power amp than my old integrated, but...
 

  The volume control on the Rag is different than any other amp I've owned: the volume raises very slowly until about 12. After that it get loud pretty fast (exponential curve?).

 
...I noticed the same thing after my initial post.
 
Fine control over the usable volume range is a great feature of this Schiit.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Yes, one of the strange (great?) things about the Ragnarok's volume control is that it offers the same 1.2dB attenuation for every relay "click," which is unlike most volume potentiometers.
 
Most pots (including audio-taper pots) usually have most of the attenuation from 7-12 o'clock on the dial--in fact, many of them have only about 6dB attenuation from 12 o'clock to the top of the range.
 
Ragnarok has almost 40db attenuation from 12 o'clock to the top of the range, so the difference, from, say, 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock is VERY significant. 2 o'clock is still probably more like 10 o'clock on most volume pots you're used fo.

 

[goldendarko]

Yeah 2 o'clock seems to be the sweet spot for my headphones. The speakers need more but I still can't turn the dial all the way without blowing my ears out.

 

[DVass13]

   
I decided I would drive up to Ann Arbor this weekend to visit my girlfriend and convinced her to let me spend some time at Overture Audio this afternoon. TJ Jankowski set me up with some speakers in one of their listening rooms. I'll have to email him for the details of the setup since I don't remember the specifics off the top of my head. I don't have a lot of experience with high-end 2 channel setups so I asked him for some of his impressions to add to my own. After about an hour of listening (first with music he was familiar with and then music of my choice) we both shared our thoughts. My initial impression was that the Rag is very good. The highs were very detailed and the mids were crisp. Voices were reproduced with wonderful clarity. There were several songs that left me with an ear to ear grin. The only flaw I found was the lows. The sub-bass seemed a bit under-powered and lacked the punch I had hoped for.
 
TJ seemed rather impressed with it as well. For a $1700 amp that is both a headphone and speaker amp he thought it performed very well, although he was quick to point out it didn't quite compare with some of their $3,500+ amps. He also pointed out the Rag's lack of control over the bass. The speakers we had the Rag connected to were pretty inefficient, though, and required nearly full volume on high gain to drive. Like I said previously, I don't have much experience with speaker amps so I can't compare it to anything so I will trust TJ's final thought: This amp is very good for the price. It is meant to be a very good two-in-one for someone that doesn't have $10,000+ to spend on a speaker setup. It's a very capable product at a good price.

 
I emailed TJ earlier today to ask for some specifics about the setup I used:
 
The speakers we were using are the Dynaudio Confidence Platinum C1.  They run $9400.00 per pair, and the stands they were mounted on are the Dynaudio Stand 6 at $600.00 per pair.  So, the sum total is $10,000.00 for the speakers.  Finally, we were using Linn K20 speaker cable which runs about $3.25 per foot, plus terminations.
 
If you want some more background info on the speakers you can find it here:
 
http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/confidence_pl/confidence_c1_pl.php
 
 
The source was my Fiio X5 using the line out to RCA connectors with all lossless files from 16 bit/44.1 up through DSD. This setup was very good. I know that the speakers accounted for most of this, which is why I asked for TJ's opinions as well. I think the Rag did very well, though, and would be very satisfied with it as a speaker amp.

 

[Defiant00]

Cool, thanks for the further info.

 

[nailbunny7]

I'd be most interested to hear how they pair with the very efficient speakers from Zu Audio or Omega Loudspeakers, since that is what I primarily use.

 

[Armaegis]

  Most pots (including audio-taper pots) usually have most of the attenuation from 7-12 o'clock on the dial--in fact, many of them have only about 6dB attenuation from 12 o'clock to the top of the range.

 
Aren't a lot of "audio-taper" pots actually just two linear regions stitched together to crudely approximate the log profile?

 

[David Aldrich]

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Aren't a lot of "audio-taper" pots actually just two linear regions stitched together to crudely approximate the log profile?

 
Yep, or two kinda-log sections stitched together, usually around the 11 o'clock region. It has to be done for decent channel matching, but it results in a perceptually non-linear profile.
 
Small pots are worse for this (compare a 9mm Alps to a 25mm Alps). To further complicate matters, manufacturers have different standards for what they call "audio taper." Audio taper, from, say, BI, is almost unusable, since it's so close to linear. Bourns is somewhere between Alps and BI. We can't get big Nobles anymore, but I remember it being the same as, or slightly better than, Alps. Haven't tried Alpha pots--I should do that someday.
 
Funny thing: a lot of manufacturers actually like the non-linear profile, since it gives the product an "aggressive" volume profile--turn it up just a little, and the volume increases dramatically. This makes a lot of customers think, "Hey, this thing is really powerful." It's the same as some cars that are tuned to give you 80% throttle at 20% throw of the gas pedal. "Whoa, that's fast," some people think. Then you floor it and go, "Whoa, that's misleading."

 

[Armaegis]

Any thoughts on those LDR attenuators? (I don't know much about them, but my edumacated brain feels like a resistive element that changes based on something as fickle as light would be really noisy and inconsistent... but having no actual experience on the matter I should bite my tongue).

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  Any thoughts on those LDR attenuators? (I don't know much about them, but my edumacated brain feels like a resistive element that changes based on something as fickle as light would be really noisy and inconsistent... but having no actual experience on the matter I should bite my tongue).

Yeah, no direct experience with them, but from what I know, using a nonlinear element for volume control wouldn't be my idea of a good time. Who knows, though?

 

[NinjaHamster]

I have an LDR pre-amp, and they certainly SOUND good - transparent without dulling dynamics or leeching harmonics.  However, they require some form of computer/chip to monitor and compensate for their peculiarities (spot my immense technical knowledge here).

 

[goldendarko]

Hey guys, my review is up, hope you enjoy it!
 
 
Schiit Ragnarok: Is It Love, or Is It Just Schiit?
 

 
 
Introduction:
 
This part is just to give you some background on my experience and how I’ve arrived at the Schiit Ragnarok before I delve into my full review, obviously feel free to skip ahead if you just want to hear about how the Ragnarok performs.
 
I am a 29 year old audiophile that’s been listening to music for as long as I can remember, but I really got into music when I was about 13 years old and my Dad gave me my first classic rock CD, Bob Dylan’s “Blood on the Tracks”.  Ever since then, I’ve been hooked, collection hundreds of CD’s over the years, and recently making the transition to a fully digital, and mostly hi-res, music library in the past 2-3 years. While I have been lurking the Head-Fi forums for the past 10 years or so (gosh, that sure sounds creepy), I have only become an active member in the past year or so. I have slowly been acquiring better gear and upgrading components over the past 15 years, searching for something I could: A) Live with for a long time and B) Afford. After spending most of my time with lower end gear, I’ve begun getting into the higher end of things recently, looking for a pair of headphones and amp that paired well together and had that sound I was searching for that I could live with for a long time. I started with a pair of Audeze LCD-2’s and a Schiit Lyr amp. I thought that was a fun combo, but it was ultimately too tubey and thick sounding for me, and certainly wasn’t the last word in resolution. The next amp I tried was the Burson Conductor, which I read was an excellent pairing with the Audeze’s. And it was, and so I enjoyed that combo for a good 6 months or so, but ultimately that amp never really drew me and just felt cold & metallic to me after a while, and when I began using my portable combo more than it (The excellent Fiio X5 DAP & E12 portable amp), I decided the Conductor had to go and the search had to continue, cue wife sigh.  I tried getting different headphones to pair with it first though; to see if that could get me closer to what I was looking for, a setup that had excellent resolution, clarity and control but also great musicality, tone and warmth. I purchased a pair of HD-800’s, LCD-3F’s and a pair of Mr. Speakers Alpha Dogs as well. The LCD-3F’s getting closest to the sound I was craving but still not quite there. After selling the Burson Conductor I began to look into endgame amps, figuring if that didn’t get me what I wanted then nothing else would. I was mainly considering the ALO Audio Studio Six, Cavalli Liquid Gold and the Auralic Taurus MK II. I hadn’t actually even been considering the Schiit Ragnarok, though I was aware of it, and only signed up for the Beta mainly because I figured it was no commitment to try some new gear, and I already knew I liked the Schiit Lyr, so maybe it would be worth it so see what Schiit could do with solid state. I thought it would be a pretty good headphone amp, but I wasn’t sold on it as a speaker amp, given that I have a pair of relatively inefficient speakers (KEF LS50’s – 85 dB sensitivity). But, I figured I would just give it a shot, and assuming it wouldn’t be sufficient to power the speakers or wouldn’t be quite the sound I have been searching for in a headphone amp, and figuring I would just return it after the 2 week trial period. Well this little piece of Schiit really dug its claws in me because it isn’t going anywhere. The Schiit Ragnarok is the endgame amp I have been searching for, and offers even more than I had thought it would.
 
Associated Equipment:
 

 
 
Source: Windows PC using JRiver PC
DAC: Auralic VEGA
Speakers: KEF LS50’s (in a near field setup)
Headphones: Audeze LCD-3F’s, Mr. Speakers Alpha Dogs & Shure SE-846 (IEM’s)
Cables: Audioquest USB & Interconnects, Shunyata Power Cables & Stock headphone cables (working on upgrading those next)
 
 
Cons:
 
Though I think this the best amp I’ve ever heard, nothing is perfect and so there are a few negative things I found about it so far in my limited time with the amp, and in all honesty they are really just nitpicks for me, but they may be deal breakers for others so I will list them all in the order of most negative to me.
 
1.)    There is definitely some hum going on with this thing, thankfully not when it’s on though, only when it’s turned off. But when it is off you can hear it in the other room, so it’s pretty loud. If anyone has any recommendations that may help reduce the hum though I would gladly try them.
2.)    There’s also no way around the fact that this thing runs hot, like seriously HOT, even the volume knob gets warm. It’s certainly not enough to burn your hard or anything, but it can certainly warm a room up a bit, so on the bright side it may save on your electricity bill in the winter.
3.)    The button to change from speaker to headphones and also to speaker/headphone output is also the input button, and there is no way to tell which mode you are switching to. This is also not a big deal for me though because I’ve already memorized the order the outputs go in, but still a switch or a dedicated button would have been nice.
 
So, that’s it for the negative aspects for me. Like I said nothing that was a deal breaker for me, but like anything it’s not perfect and those were the biggest turnoffs for me. On to how it performs as a speaker amp.
 
Speaker Amp Impressions:
 

 
Like I said earlier, this is the part of the Ragnarok that I thought would struggle, I honestly thought it was a headphone amp with a speaker amp section tagged on just because. Boy was I wrong; this thing has got serious guts! Not just guts though, it brings a level of refinement that matches or betters my Peachtree Audio 220 watt power amp. While the Peachtree amp can certainly go louder, the Rag certainly went loud enough for me to handle and brought better dynamics, tone and soundstage than the Peachtree offered, right out of the box, and even now I probably only have about 25 hours or so on it as I’ve only had it about a week (but have been using it a lot J) Color me impressed right way, because I was wrong about the Rag as a speaker amp, it is more than capable, it is exceptional. I was also impressed because I have a REL T-7 subwoofer that gets its power from the same cables delivering power to the speakers and even that still sounds excellent, robust and I am still able to enjoy individual notes as they are being played, so it’s certainly got power to spare.
 
Headphone Amp Impression
 

 
Single-Ended Headphone Output:
 
Next up is the single ended section of the amp. I tried all my different headphones with this section of the amp next, and had there never been a balanced output to try as well I think I would still be very happy with this amp and could even see myself living with it long term. It has plenty of power to drive everything from my Shure SE-846 IEM’s to my Audeze LCD-3F’s. It provides a good soundstage, excellent dynamics, very tight controlled bass and has an excellent inviting tone. I wasn’t aware that this amp could drive both single-ended and balanced headphones at the same time so I was delighted to find out that it could so both my wife and I were able to listen to it at the same time! I listened via the balanced out with the LCD-3’s and her with the Alpha Dogs and the single ended output. I will note that there was a volume mismatch, due to the fact that the single output puts out less power, so even though I did not notice any loss in dynamics when plugging in the Alpha Dogs, I had to crank my volume a bit higher to get it to a good level for her. This may mean some better headphone matching is in order, maybe using something harder to drive with the balanced output, like the LCD-3’s, and something that is easier to drive, like the LCD-X or XC’s for the single ended output. This may be something I will have to explore more in the future, probably with the XC’s though because I don’t think 2 open backed cans right next to each other is the brightest idea obviously. Anyway, it’s a neat feature I wasn’t even aware of and one that I can see us both getting a lot use out of once I find a better match. Now on the final and best section of this amp.
 
Balanced Headphone Output:
 
So I wasn’t sure what to expect when trying the balanced output, which I saved for last because I was hoping it would be the best and brightest part about this amp, and right I was. I figured it would be just like the single ended output but with more power, but it is clear right away that it is more than that. This is, to me, what an endgame amp should sound like. Black background, wide and almost 3D like soundstage, excellent dynamics, wonderful blooming bass, lush and warm midrange and non-fatiguing treble. There is so much space between instruments that I’ve never heard before in any amp, you can focus on bass player’s line and let the other instruments swirl around your head, it’s incredible. I’ve never heard my LCD-3’s like this before, which means I never truly was hearing them at their best, and this amp is capable of showing you what your system is made of for sure. In terms of content, I will say it is very easy to notice the difference between your source files. I tried many DSD albums which all had a lovely analog sound to them with the black background and wide soundstages. Most of my other hi-res tracks (24/96 & 24/192 downloads) were about the same, if only slightly less dynamic. Lossless CD rips at 16/44.1 sounded excellent also, though the soundstage definitely tightens a bit more noticeably. And lastly, lossless Spotify streams are shown to be what they are, not very good. I would save that for casual background listening only via the speaker outputs because the balanced output is a bit too revealing for poor quality material.  This amp will bring out the best in your music if you feed it high quality sources, but it will also reveal poor recordings as well so it may be best to make sure the rest of your music library is in order first before trying the Ragnarok.
 
Closing:
 

 
So, as I said earlier, I went into this Beta testing program thinking this would just be a good opportunity to try some new gear and broaden my horizon a bit more, thinking that I had my mind made up on the “true” endgame amps. Well, considering the fact that in only one week of living with it I’ve already listed my Peachtree gear for sale and have decided this thing does headphone amplification and speaker amplification than gear I had paid a total of $4200 for (the Burson Conductor and Peachtree setup) and that this was only going to be $1700 (well actually only $1500 because I got picked to beta test it, lucky me J) It is also a very non-fatiguing amp, unlike the Conductor was for me, and I found myself listening for 4-5 hours at a time. I will note that it does need some warmup time to sound it’s best, at least 30-45 minutes or so, but once this thing gets hot enough to cook on (you think I’m joking!) then it starts making wonderful sounding music.  So I have found my endgame amp and I would just like to say hats off to Jason and his team at Schiit, the Ragnarok is an amazing amp and deserves a place among other true endgame amps and perhaps offers the greatest value and versatility of them all, well done!