[Whitigir]

According to engadget Chinese edition, it won't be available for retail until Dec.

That makes sense just as much as other Sony devices. The same goes for WM-1Z. However, who would spend this much for such device ? If I go desktop, I go all the way, and at this price, even Chord TT2 is more appealing

Then again, why using 5 battery packs instead of 5 independent Linear power supply ? Can even put in a huge battery if desired

*the 5 batteries are decent substitute for a linear power supply*.

 

[Wiz33]

Damn, this thing is the size of a small brick so definitely not for portable use. The cool thing is that you can charge while running in battery mode.

 

[raypin]

Mm...if the DMP Z1 performs as well as a Chord Hugo TT2/High-quality player (minimum is an SP 1000), then I would understand the high price point. If not, Sony needs to reduce the asking price. The Z1 already enjoys a huge advantage: much more transportable. Also, can you name another transportable unit (standalone, off-grid) that is as good, if not better, than the DMP Z1? There’s none except for the Chord TT2. Maybe the Woo Audio WA8 plus high quality source.....

Point is transportability, off-grid and standalone listening are premium features that may justify a premium price point. At a minimum, I expect it to easily surpass the SP 1000 and the 1Z.....and perform as well as most desktop set-ups.

As for storage, what does it matter if it is 256 GB or 512 GB? The fact that it supports external memory cards MEANS you have unlimited storage. Just buy a bunch of them then rotate it.

Speculative at this point since none of us have had the opportunity to audition the Z1.

 

[nanaholic]

The reason you're seeing the high price is not that they're difficult to make. With computer controlled precision milling, no mechanical parts are hard to make and with today's forging tech, even semi exotic alloy are not that hard to come by. What cause the high price is production volume. Ultra high end audio is such a niche market the boutique house will be lucky to sell a new hundred units a year. If the volume change to at least a few hundreds each month. You can easily drop the price by 50%.

The cost of making is build into getting the equipment as well, and high precision machinery doesn't come cheap, the two are tightly related.

I get people are upset with the price, I think it is very expensive too, and everyone has the option to simply not buy it. What I get annoyed by is how people have a very poor judgement of the cost involved in making things just by what material it is. Just take your example further and applying it to electronics, the machinery and the process to make electronic chips costs way more than most people realises, yet the material for a chip is literally dirt cheap, using only the BOI to judge the worth of a component is simply wrong, and devalues so many things in our life. Even that lowly DAC chip which only cost maybe 10 bucks now in bulk, however if you would only able to find 10 buyers of them around the world and factoring all the equipment cost etc to make them, they will no longer be 10 bucks and the cost would easily shoot up 100 folds if the manufacturer is to break even.

 

[nanaholic]

Yeap I know Alps is making pots for ridiculous money for decades it doesn't mean they are worth it... Patek Philippe makes watches for 50k and up it doesn't mean they measure time better than 10 USD casio - but the difference is watches might be treated as jewellery where SA or any volume pot is very hard to treat as one... So unless you treat your audio gear as a fine art... I like to use mine to listening to music

Some people want both and weights up the value differently, else Patek Philippe would've gone bankrupt decades ago when the digital watch was invented if everyone only want precision and the cheapest price possible, you and I just aren't those people, just a fact of life that different people want different things.

 

[nanaholic]

It is designed as a portable device. Otherwise, why they don't add digital out/in, analog out/in features ? At the back, there is only one usb input.

They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.

Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.

 

[beaux]

They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.

Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.

'If you are looking for a desktop system, go for zh1es' -----by designer of dmp z1 from sony. Actually, I am just expressing what I have heard from sony. They recommend to use this device when you are in the library, office, coffee shop. You can see it has only 4.4 and 3.5mm output. I can't image a desktop amp without 6.3 xlr output.

 

[beaux]

They want it to be an all-in-one solution to minimise RF interference and increase SQ, which is not necessarily related to it being portable.

Heck even Chord's Rob Watts is very outspoken about the quality of the input source having an effect on his devices - just look at the Hugo 2 thread, and that has nothing to do with portability.

I think it is better to use z1 as a portable dap. It easily blows all current portable systems away However, I don't think it stand a chance against a desktop system costing 8000usd.

 

[benchan2]

Since it is the official thread, do we have the launch date or other official news here?

 

[nanaholic]

'If you are looking for a desktop system, go for zh1es' -----by designer of dmp z1 from sony. Actually, I am just expressing what I have heard from sony. They recommend to use this device when you are in the library, office, coffee shop. You can see it has only 4.4 and 3.5mm output. I can't image a desktop amp without 6.3 xlr output.

that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered. other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
4) there are indeed super capacitors build into the battery/power circuit, they just didn't mention it because "it's a matter of fact they are in there"
5) and of course they toyed with the traditional transformer, it was too big and won't fit in the chassis.
6) a lot of the components are hand soldered, also they used in house developed lead free solder formula that is mixed with gold.
7) the glass top was a designer decision to show off the internal and the gold knob, but it looked ugly when paired with the aluminium chassis, so they found a new way to treat the chassis so it resulted in a mirror finish just so that would look good under the glass, while not interfere with their chassis ground design

The DMP is a show off art piece and F1 machine to test new components and techniques blended together. So yeah it is off the balls crazy expensive. it's not worth buying for 99.9% of the users, but it's worth looking forward for the technology which will trickle down to the other product lines.

 

[beaux]

that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered. other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
4) there are indeed super capacitors build into the battery/power circuit, they just didn't mention it because "it's a matter of fact they are in there"
5) and of course they toyed with the traditional transformer, it was too big and won't fit in the chassis.
6) a lot of the components are hand soldered, also they used in house developed lead free solder formula that is mixed with gold.
7) the glass top was a designer decision to show off the internal and the gold knob, but it looked ugly when paired with the aluminium chassis, so they found a new way to treat the chassis so it resulted in a mirror finish just so that would look good under the glass, while not interfere with their chassis ground design

The DMP is a show off art piece and F1 machine to test new components and techniques blended together. So yeah it is off the balls crazy expensive. it's not worth buying for 99.9% of the users, but it's worth looking forward for the technology which will trickle down to the other product lines.

Wow. Lots of precious information. Thanks! Well, if it's designed for desktop system, it is not expensive at all but can't be use with speakers and electro headphones. 1000mw output.... can't drive most flagship headphones. No analog/digital input/output... A perfect endgame dac/amp. It helps me save lots of hi-fi cables which would cost thousands

 

[purk]

@nanaholic,

I don't think people really question the AK dual DAC chip here, but rather their decision to go with the off the shelf op-amps instead of using a fully discrete amplification using exotic resistors/transistor. An off the shelf IC such as the TPA6120 is a poor attempt here on such a top-end unit. Sony is more than capable of designing their own headphone circuit that should easily outperform the TPA6120 integrated circuit. I appreciate the information above and I suspect that they decided to make it transportable and keep the weight down by using battery instead of a fully regulated linear PSU unit. I own the Z1R, ZH1ES, and WM1Z as well as the Qualia 010 and R10 but they will not get my money on the DMP-Z1.

 

[Whitigir]

@nanaholic,

I don't think people really question the AK dual DAC chip here, but rather their decision to go with the off the shelf op-amps instead of using a fully discrete amplification using exotic resistors/transistor. An off the shelf IC such as the TPA6120 is a poor attempt here on such a top-end unit. Sony is more than capable of designing their own headphone circuit that should easily outperform the TPA6120 integrated circuit. I appreciate the information above and I suspect that they decided to make it transportable and keep the weight down by using battery instead of a fully regulated linear PSU unit. I own the Z1R, ZH1ES, and WM1Z as well as the Qualia 010 and R10 but they will not get my money on the DMP-Z1.

Totally agreed, the more you look into the designs, the more it is not worth the asking price.

They admit defeat on S-Master at high power output. Yet, 1W into 16Ohms output is nothing close to being powerful. By using TPA6120, don’t tell me they admit defeat here too ? Sony used to be very innovative with the engineering that lead the market, and the ability to fabricate their own IC. Especially when it comes to specialized things. At this price point, we would take the product to be unique and specialized with Sony leading market innovations. Yet, everywhere you look at, yelling off the shelves components. Perhap, the leading innovation here is a glass like Aluminum finish similar to my cooktops, and a solid OFC gold plated volume knobs. Again, even Chord TT2 is more innovative and unique...cheaper and more powerful

Even worse, they admit that battery is decen substitute for linear power supply. Yet, they decided to go for it on the most expensive products ? If it was a full scale desktop, with Sony own independent LPS, Sony own exotic discrete analog circuitry, properly powerful output. Then it would make a lot more senses

 

[purk]

I was hoping that Sony will update the PHA-3 with ESS9038 chips......perhaps that is a no go now.

 

[Whitigir]

Look at off the shelves expensive opaamp,and expensive electrolytic capacitors ! China brand is already doing it, but isn’t going to cost an arm and leg. On top of that, they do sound good