[HOWIE13]

  well that's good to know :3 how ever in my rig I didn't find the background to be entirely black 
 
anyways, I'll have a full comparison review in both written an video form, I reshooting everything now 
 
Frankly, in terms of sound quality, I found the Vali to be lacking overall, how ever it does have a lot of power on tap an it is very easy to operate. Where as with the Starlight you really need to experiment with the different jumper settings to get the best quality of sound. So to me each amp is really targeted at a different audiance, Schiit is like the Apple iOS. They sell an ecosystem of high quality an easy to own equipment, with Garage 1217 an the Starlight more like Android, better over all but only if you work to draw out the latent potential, or "experiment" a little 
 
So obviously, the Starlight is not for every one. Some people will get frustrated with having to experiment, as they may already have busy lives an simply want a "plug an play" amp that just sounds good! For that market the Schiit Vali 2 is clearly the better purchase, an of course the reverse is also true. Others may be willing to spend the time need to get the better overall quality from the Starlight in their systems, as opposed to having to "settle" with the some what limited options the Vali 2 offers 

I think that's a very good assessment.

 

[bboris77]

  Sounds like some Vali2's hum and some don't. Maybe it's a power supply issue. I wonder how good the QC is in China?
Mine can be most easily appreciated when I stop the music and switch from low to high gain. The background hum is then obvious as on low gain the amp is silent.

It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.

 

[HOWIE13]

 
It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.

Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.

 

[bboris77]

  Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's.
I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.

I understand completely and perhaps there are some minor variances in the level of hum on each unit, or maybe it has to do with the tube itself. I have the stock GE tube. By the way, do you find it that the HD650 sounds better/different in the high gain mode? I thought that my Q701 sounded a little more open and dynamic in the high gain mode, but I keep it in the low gain mode because it is supposed to have much lower distortion (at least in theory).

 

[HOWIE13]

 
I understand completely and perhaps there are some minor variances in the level of hum on each unit, or maybe it has to do with the tube itself. I have the stock GE tube. By the way, do you find it that the HD650 sounds better/different in the high gain mode? I thought that my Q701 sounded a little more open and dynamic in the high gain mode, but I keep it in the low gain mode because it is supposed to have much lower distortion (at least in theory).

I thought the same about theoretically expecting more distortion with high gain but, like you, I  find the HD650 is clearer and more articulate and dynamic on high gain, especially the mids and highs. I keep mine on high for this reason.

 

[jlangholzj]

 
It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.

 
 
Absolutely some tubes are going to be more susceptible to noise than others. Even in the world of noisy 12ax7's there's several 'LPS' versions that have a lower noise floor than others.
 
Additionally, I'd expect high-gain mode on low-Z cans to reveal some noise. I'm (obviously) not 100% sure how jason/mike decided to implement it but I've done an adjustable NFB loop to implement a low/hi gain mode in one of my previous designs. The low-Z and high-efficiency cans are going to inherently have a higher noise floor, so adding more NFB in basically killed two birds with one stone for me (it was an OTL design so I got better drive from a lower Z-out with low-Z cans along with some noise canceling). I bring this up because it very well could be how the vali2 implements it's low/high gain mode (with a NFB loop).
 
If anyone who's experiencing hum puts the amp in low-gain with the lower Z cans, is the noise still prevalent? I'm curious to know.
 
EDIT: I did notice that after all this rambling that boris noted the same thing in #708....whoops..

 

[HOWIE13]

   
 
Absolutely some tubes are going to be more susceptible to noise than others. Even in the world of noisy 12ax7's there's several 'LPS' versions that have a lower noise floor than others.
 
Additionally, I'd expect high-gain mode on low-Z cans to reveal some noise. I'm (obviously) not 100% sure how jason/mike decided to implement it but I've done an adjustable NFB loop to implement a low/hi gain mode in one of my previous designs. The low-Z and high-efficiency cans are going to inherently have a higher noise floor, so adding more NFB in basically killed two birds with one stone for me (it was an OTL design so I got better drive from a lower Z-out with low-Z cans along with some noise canceling). I bring this up because it very well could be how the vali2 implements it's low/high gain mode (with a NFB loop).
 
If anyone who's experiencing hum puts the amp in low-gain with the lower Z cans, is the noise still prevalent? I'm curious to know.
 
EDIT: I did notice that after all this rambling that boris noted the same thing....whoops..

I don't get any noise with low impedance cans, like HP100/200, P5, E10, HE400.
I guess it also speaks well for the design of the Vali 2 that I hear no audible distortion on high gain either, at reasonable/safe volumes, of course.
As to the hum it's also probable different ears and brains are more or less sensitive. I know that once I think I've heard a hum (or any noise) I come to anticipate it, and that's not a good thing. 

 

 

[jlangholzj]

  I don't get any noise with low impedance cans, like HP100/200, P5, E10, HE400.
I guess it also speaks well for the design of the Vali 2 that I hear no audible distortion on high gain either, at reasonable/safe volumes, of course.
As to the hum it's also probable different ears and brains are more or less sensitive. I know that once I think I've heard a hum (or any noise) I come to anticipate it, and that's not a good thing. 

 

The stuck pixel that cannot be "unseen" on the monitor.....I know the feeling.
 
As an aside I'd not expect any distortion from any amplifier so long as you've got a quality set of cans. Usually this (distortion/clipping/whathaveyou) comes from overdriving a gain stage somewhere *or* you've got a wonky bias point. The REAL bonus nachos is having a dynamic, well rounded signal at lower volumes. This is going to be minimized quite a lot by having the solid output stage as it's drive capability is CONSIDERABLY better than straight tubes. I digress however.....
 
You said you've been leaving it in low-gain mode. If you switch over do you experience any hum/noise? Also I'd expect your observations to be pretty accurate (hooray!). If they are in fact doing a NFB loop, I'd expect it to be fed back into the input so any noise generated from the tube stage is eliminated as well. While not always the case, I've noted that several high efficiency cans tend to be a bit more...sparkly? So there could be some very slight passive filtering going on in "low gain" to help flatten the curve a bit. This of course varies infinitely for different cans...so YMMV. (again, a tactic I've employed on my OTL amp to help my 50 ohm cans...I've yet to get my hands on some 300+ ohms to test how they sound however so I'm not 100% set on this one yet).

 

[Makiah S]

  I think that's a very good assessment.

 
 

  Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.

I appreciate your feed back with me here, Howie13
 
Really in terms of Value both amps are fantastic! An really excel with a different set of cans. As the Starlight can NOT drive my HE 4, but the Vali 2 can. Where as on the flip side the Vali 2 sounds noisy with my LA D5k, compared to the Starlight. 

 

[HOWIE13]

 
The stuck pixel that cannot be "unseen" on the monitor.....I know the feeling.
 
As an aside I'd not expect any distortion from any amplifier so long as you've got a quality set of cans. Usually this (distortion/clipping/whathaveyou) comes from overdriving a gain stage somewhere *or* you've got a wonky bias point. The REAL bonus nachos is having a dynamic, well rounded signal at lower volumes. This is going to be minimized quite a lot by having the solid output stage as it's drive capability is CONSIDERABLY better than straight tubes. I digress however.....
 
You said you've been leaving it in low-gain mode. If you switch over do you experience any hum/noise? Also I'd expect your observations to be pretty accurate (hooray!). If they are in fact doing a NFB loop, I'd expect it to be fed back into the input so any noise generated from the tube stage is eliminated as well. While not always the case, I've noted that several high efficiency cans tend to be a bit more...sparkly? So there could be some very slight passive filtering going on in "low gain" to help flatten the curve a bit. This of course varies infinitely for different cans...so YMMV. (again, a tactic I've employed on my OTL amp to help my 50 ohm cans...I've yet to get my hands on some 300+ ohms to test how they sound however so I'm not 100% set on this one yet).

It's good when theory and practice are in concordance. Actually I use high gain when needed and usually manage to ignore any hum. When a song ends I whistle or something to avoid hearing the hum (joking).

 

[HOWIE13]

   
 
I appreciate your feed back with me here, Howie13
 
Really in terms of Value both amps are fantastic! An really excel with a different set of cans. As the Starlight can NOT drive my HE 4, but the Vali 2 can. Where as on the flip side the Vali 2 sounds noisy with my LA D5k, compared to the Starlight. 

Yes, the Vali2 is very good. Having auto bias is a big plus too.
I've rolled all sorts of exotic stuff in them, some of which I've posted, and it copes very well. 
It's actually for my daughter so I don't want to play with it too much or she will think I bought it second hand.
I prefer the Starlight because ultimately it can be fined tuned to accommodate more genres, but for ease of use and good sound the Vali2 is excellent value.

 

[Tuneslover]

My Vali exhibits no hum on lo or hi gain with both Sylvania stock tubes (I ordered an extra one) when listening with HE500 and HD650. However I do hear a subtle hum on hi gain with my JJ and EH tubes.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

My Vali exhibits no hum on lo or hi gain with both stock tubes (I ordered an extra one). However I do hear a subtle hum on hi gain with my JJ and EH tubes.

Different tubes have different heater geometry (and there are variances in production of any single tube type/manufacturer), so some will have higher or lower noise levels. 

 

[Tuneslover]

I was listening to Black Sabbath's Snowblind the other evening in lo gain with HE500 and wondered why there was no bass. I switched to hi gain (volume matched) and the missing bass appeared.

 

[roamling]

  Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.

I have the same issue, I can hear a hum when others cant. But interestingly you mentioned the Starlight. I had a Sunrise 2 but could hear a hum, so wondering if the Starlight has less hum?
But the Vali might not be for me, after reading through this thread. But just in case somebody has the Vali 2 AND some of the Garage 1217 amps, how do they rank in regards to noise?