[negura]

I guess there must have been atleast some kind of improvements, even if minor, to the sonics of the production units vs the beta units, cause the impressions on the production units are overall more positive than the impressions were on the beta units were. Lol.
Can anyone confirm this?

 
It's interesting to hear how there was any time to analyse beta testing feedback and implement SQ changes. My beta testing pair is still here with me, but I am returning them shortly. Maybe some testers who did not return a pair can compare with the final product. I am optimistic, but very reserved. That said, even if there are no changes to what we've heard, from experience I am fully expecting to see a lot of the usual new product escalating excitement for the next few months, before reality sinks in. Nothing unusual so far. But again maybe not all units sound the same as the one I'm hearing, however quite a few did during the beta.

 

[DreamKing]

  The A-100 is again a budget amp. There are two things required to properly drive any transducer. one is meeting the power demand, and the other is meeting the quality demand. With less resolving speakers or headphones, the difference between a budget to midfi amp might not even be discernable. And going to a high end amp will bring improvements, but nothing like using high end speakers or headphones. Lower end transducers usually are not resolving enough to justify the cost upgrading to high end components. 
 
Many will tell you whether you use a 1 one watt amp or a 500 watt amp, it really won't matter much if that first watt isn't what it's suppose to be. Nelson Pass will definitely tell you that. What a higher end amp will bring over a budget amp is much better refinement and much improvements in all of the technicality department. We are talking tighter, more extended, better defined bass. Less shrill and harsh treble, a wider deeper, more holographic soundstage, more precised imaging, and a smoother less grainy mid range. And that's just to name a few.  Feeding a transducer the required current is just one side of the coin. 

 
I'm fine with different perceptions but there are 0 mentions of any of these qualities in the technical ability of an amp. The price of an amp isn't a technical ability, budget or expensive, one or the other has never been shown to produce better results. I've never seen an amp's quality being defined by sound qualities based on human perception in any standard. At its best, the signal's frequency response should be flat, extend completely to our hearing and vary as little as possible so that the amp remains audibly transparent. 
 
Can you show me source of your amp or any amp drastically changing, improving a transducer's frequency response or changing the signal by the extent you described, all of this even before it is converted into sound by the transducer?

 

[moodyrn]

Seeing your response and how it seems you have an agenda of some sorts, I'm not going even attempt to start a senseless debate with you. Lets just leave at everybody who thinks amps of the same wattage  sounds different depending on the design, layout and parts used are dead wrong, and are fooling themselves. And people like you are right.

 

[DreamKing]

I'm not saying you're wrong about hearing what you hear, just wondering how price is relevant to quality in any case as well as how the drastic changing of the sound of a headphone is a technical ability. No agenda, just responding to your continuously questioning miceblue's amps. 

 

[Cotnijoe]

  I'm not saying you're wrong about hearing what you hear, just wondering how price is relevant to quality in any case as well as how the drastic changing of the sound of a headphone is a technical ability. No agenda, just responding to your continuously questioning miceblue's amps. 

 
Moodyrn isn't the only that has some questions regarding Mice's thoughts. I've had a couple fellow headfiers come over to give a listen to the HE1000 and the biggest takeaway they had was how dynamic the sound of the HE1000 is.
 
@miceblue I think has mentioned that the HE1000 is soft on impact, and Tyll has also mentioned that. However, comparing the HE1000 to the HE560, the HE1000's ability to reproduce nuances and to move air is much better. Like... simply outclassing the HE560, not just being a little better. I remember seeing Mice's review of the HE560 and him saying that he quite liked the HE560, so I'm actually pretty curious as to know what his thoughts are comparing the two, though I know he only had a tour unit of the HE560.

 

[DreamKing]

   
Moodyrn isn't the only that has some questions regarding Mice's thoughts. I've had a couple fellow headfiers come over to give a listen to the HE1000 and the biggest takeaway they had was how dynamic the sound of the HE1000 is.
 
@miceblue I think has mentioned that the HE1000 is soft on impact, and Tyll has also mentioned that. However, comparing the HE1000 to the HE560, the HE1000's ability to reproduce nuances and to move air is much better. Like... simply outclassing the HE560, not just being a little better. I remember seeing Mice's review of the HE560 and him saying that he quite liked the HE560, so I'm actually pretty curious as to know what his thoughts are comparing the two, though I know he only had a tour unit of the HE560.

 
From the frequency response graphs, the HE-560 appears to have more linear and complete bass extension from the sub-bass to the upper bass, and even well into the midrange, than the HE-1000. I don't doubt the HE-1000 has more air in the high frequencies though. And then the HE-6 is even more linear than both overall and shows more content in the HF than the HE-1000.

 

[saidentary]

HEY GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I just finished an extended listening session with these with the newly released, David Berning designed, MicroZOTL. The sound of the HE-1000s is absolutely MAGICAL with this amp.  I didn't know what to expect from this little amp.  It completely blew away my "best case" scenario for how it would match up with and drive the HE 1000s.  These headphones now (to my ears, various qualifiers, yada yada) approach sonic perfection.  THIS is the headphone I heard at Axpona.  Probably even better than that.  I'm still in shock, but in a GOOD, euphoric way!  Now I'm just going to be struggling to do justice to this astoundingly synergistic combination in my review, which is now going to be a lot more fun to write.

 

[jerg]

   
From the frequency response graphs, the HE-560 appears to have more linear and complete bass extension from the sub-bass to the upper bass, and even well into the midrange, than the HE-1000. I don't doubt the HE-1000 has more air in the high frequencies though. And then the HE-6 is even more linear than both overall and shows more content in the HF than the HE-1000.

It has more air / more effortless music layering, it just does. I'm sorry, but judging headphones based on FR is like judging how hot a girl is based on a glimpse of her shadow.

 

[DreamKing]

  It has more air / more effortless music layering, it just does. I'm sorry, but judging headphones based on FR is like judging how hot a girl is based on a glimpse of her shadow.

 
Like I said in the post you're quoting, I don't doubt it has more air. Not judging the headphone, just trying to figure out what Tyll or mice is hearing in the bass is all. The FR is one frame of reference just like your impressions. It doesn't seem to extend particularly deep or show any bump in the bass. 

 

[Cotnijoe]

 

  It has more air / more effortless music layering, it just does. I'm sorry, but judging headphones based on FR is like judging how hot a girl is based on a glimpse of her shadow.

 
Like I said in the post you're quoting, I don't doubt it has more air. Not judging the headphone, just trying to figure out what Tyll or mice is hearing in the bass is all. The FR is one frame of reference just like your impressions. It doesn't seem to extend particularly deep or show any bump in the bass. 

 
The HE1000 has more of a bass bump than the HE560 as me and other beta testers have pointed out. I also dont think it explains the softness they hear with the HE1000 as the extension on the HE1000 is very good

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I'm fine with different perceptions but there are 0 mentions of any of these qualities in the technical ability of an amp. The price of an amp isn't a technical ability, budget or expensive, one or the other has never been shown to produce better results. I've never seen an amp's quality being defined by sound qualities based on human perception in any standard. At its best, the signal's frequency response should be flat, extend completely to our hearing and vary as little as possible so that the amp remains audibly transparent. 

Can you show me source of your amp or any amp drastically changing, improving a transducer's frequency response or changing the signal by the extent you described, all of this even before it is converted into sound by the transducer?

Dream, just listen too a lot of different amps, you will hear the sonic differences between a Krell and and a B&K, I have both, very quickly. Speed, resolution, bass slam, soundstage, etc., etc. etc.Show me somebody who thinks all amps sound the same, I'll show you someone who hasn't heard a wide variety of amps or drinks NWAVGuy's Kool aide.

 

[moodyrn]

  HEY GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I just finished an extended listening session with these with the newly released, David Berning designed, MicroZOTL. The sound of the HE-1000s is absolutely MAGICAL with this amp.  I didn't know what to expect from this little amp.  It completely blew away my "best case" scenario for how it would match up with and drive the HE 1000s.  These headphones now (to my ears, various qualifiers, yada yada) approach sonic perfection.  THIS is the headphone I heard at Axpona.  Probably even better than that.  I'm still in shock, but in a GOOD, euphoric way!  Now I'm just going to be struggling to do justice to this astoundingly synergistic combination in my review, which is now going to be a lot more fun to write.

Uh oh. Someone here may take issue with that amp bringing that kind of improvement.

 
 
But seriously, congrats.

 

[saidentary]

  Uh oh. Someone here may take issue with that amp bringing that kind of improvement.

 
 
But seriously, congrats.

Yeah, well...  they haven't heard this combo.  Maybe they wouldn't like it.  I know that I do.  It's astounding.  I just fired it up today after getting one for an audition.  I called the ZOTL guy twice today (Saturday).  I told him there was one way he'd get this little amp back from me → pry it from my cold dead fingers*.
 
 
*And yes, I really did say that to him. (He was pleased with the outcome of the audition....) 

 

 

[MacedonianHero]

I plan to buy the HE1000 or SR009 to complete my endgame setup. Which is better? Can you give a quick comparison? I MOSTLY hear Rock, Pop and Metal.

 
I've only had my production HE1000s for 2 days now and based on what I've heard they are both excellent. But my SR-009s are a tad more excellent so far. We'll see how the burn-in process goes. Both are certainly among the very best I've heard.
 

  I agree with you Peter. These headphones seem easy to drive but actually they like power (Current) and the more the better they sound. They are very transparent so they really show you not only the recording but also the whole upstream audio chain. I have been playing with headphones cables for the stock to the Zeus OCC Copper to the WireWorld Nano Platinum OCC Silver and IMO these headphones are the ones showing a more significant change in sound of all the ones I have  when the cable is changed.
 
They do change and settle nicely with burn-in an edit take at least 120 hours to start getting there. Mine have over 200 hours and they little brightness shown when new is gone. Giving them between 5 to 10 watts make them open up and the soundstage get bigger and more holographic IMO. As you I do think they are very close in speed to my SR-009 but with better bass. Definitive not the same sound signature then the HE-6 but I personally like it better so I think my HE-6 are on their way to the for sale forum.

 
Yep, giving them more time before I really start to comment on the sonics. But the comfort and finish are both outstanding and sonically I am very impressed right out of the box!

 

[DreamKing]

Dream, just listen too a lot of different amps, you will hear the sonic differences between a Krell and and a B&K, I have both, very quickly. Speed, resolution, bass slam, soundstage, etc., etc. etc.Show me somebody who thinks all amps sound the same, I'll show you someone who hasn't heard a wide variety of amps or drinks NWAVGuy's Kool aide.

 
I'm not talking about sonic differences, I'm talking about driving a headphone transparently. Is there any source that would explain how sonic differences, that differ from a flat signal, are related to an amp's technical ability? Until then, I'm all for everyone having different perceptions and don't see no shame in it, hey I hear different stuff, less pleasing stuff too sometimes but it's not relevant to an amp's performance or figures of merit (which are bound in objectivity).
 
The only reason I interjected is because people were insinuating miceblue somehow wasn't hearing the HE-1000 right because of the amps he was using, when it's all subjective anyway. Like his amps are objectively so bad they make the HE-1000 sound drastically unlike what it is. I've got no reason to discuss this otherwise Wild.