Off topic in Sound Science. the new old moderation.

[bigshot]

I don’t even think the Apple Store feeds the same file to static systems as it does headphones running off Bluetooth. I think it looks at your audio and sends you a multichannel file, or a two channel matrixed for headphones.

 

[bigshot]

Boom 3D sounds almost the same as spatial audio, but with files that aren’t Atmos. It’s 2 channel signal processing, not true multichannel. I think apple’s spatial audio for headphones is the same animal.

 

[Davesrose]

I don’t even think the Apple Store feeds the same file to static systems as it does headphones running off Bluetooth. I think it looks at your audio and sends you a multichannel file, or a two channel matrixed for headphones.

You're really wishful thinking here. The albums that are Dolby Atmos are just as they are: at least 5.1 Atmos positional audio. It sends that audio to Apple headphones. It is the competing surround format as some other blue tooth headphones (like Sony has their own headphone surround).

 

[bigshot]

How does it send 5.1 over Bluetooth?

 

[Davesrose]

How does it send 5.1 over Bluetooth?

A lossy processed audio codec.

 

[bigshot]

In two channels. Bluetooth doesn't support 5.1. And why would you push discrete multichannel across 5g to a phone only to process it and combine it down to 2 channels to send out to the headphones? If you look carefully at how Apple words things, Atmos isn't used for headphones in the Apple Store. They call it Spatial Audio. They serve four different kinds of audio files... plain vanilla AAC 320, lossless files, Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos. Which one you get depends on which you choose and what you are playing it back on. For instance, AirPods will play AAC and Spatial Audio, but they won't play lossless files or discrete multichannel Atmos. It defaults back to AAC and Spatial Audio.

I have blu-ray audio of some of the multichannel tracks in the Apple Music store. The Spatial Audio version played on Apple AirPods Max sounds completely different. Spatial Audio is just signal processing. It isn't discrete multichannel. And I suspect that the processing is done primarily at Cupertino, and is decoded on your phone for playback the same way Dolby Stereo decodes to matrixed surround. Except it isn't decoding to surround. It's decoding to a phase and EQ sweetened two channel playback.

 

[Davesrose]

What do you think spacial audio means?

 

[bigshot]

In Apple's definition, a combination of EQ, phase and time delay, along with a totally different mix than either the multichannel mix or the normal 2 channel mix. I suspect that vocal frequencies are matrixed to make it possible to process them separately from the rest.

In Boom, the "Spatialize" control adds reverb delay, "3D" adds phase processing, and "Fidelity" seems to do what "Sound Enhancer" does in iTunes. I think that is called an "Exciter"? Not sure about that though. All three of those can be dialed up or down. Boom also has a ten band graphic equalizer, night mode (which is a compressor), pitch adjustment up and down, and "ambience" which I can't discern doing anything at all.

That's the best I've been able to figure it out based on listening to a bunch of stuff. Dolby and Apple are tight lipped when it comes to details about what Spatial Audio is and how it works. They just describe it with sales pitch and avoid technical explanations. There's a certain amount of emperor's new clothes involved. Playing with the settings in Boom has taught me some of what the different elements of the processing in Spatial Audio do. Boom can get really close to what Spatial Audio does, but not limited to Apple approved sources. In fact, it it was possible to get the track Apple uses for Spatial Audio, I bet you could exactly match it with Boom 3D.

 

[gregorio]

Atmos for speaker systems contain separate channels.

No, it doesn’t. It’s more complex than that, it’s is not a purely channel based format.

When you describe something as Atmos, it can mean a lot of different things. It's used more as a brand name than it is strictly as a format.

Again, no it doesn’t. Atmos IS one thing and IS strictly a format. Specifically, the format is ADM.

Atmos for headphones only contain two.

There is no “Atmos for headphones”, there is only Atmos (an ADM file).

I don’t even think the Apple Store feeds the same file to static systems as it does headphones running off Bluetooth. I think it looks at your audio and sends you a multichannel file, or a two channel matrixed for headphones.

There is only one Atmos file and the Apple Store only feeds that same Atmos file. It does not look at anything and does not send you a multichannel file or a two channel matrixed for headphones!

The ADM file (encapsulated in MP4 or some other container format) is delivered to your device, say an AVR, computer or mobile phone. That device must have Dolby licensed Atmos “Rendering” software which converts (“renders”) the ADM file into the number of channels specified by your operating system or AVR. In the case of headphone “spatial audio”, binaural (not matrixing) processing is then applied to those rendered channels. The Atmos renderer has this binaural headphone processing built-in, although it’s not clear if Apple bypasses this last step and applies it’s own binaural processing.

You should not just post made-up false facts/information, look it up or ask if you don’t know and certainly do NOT just keep arguing your false/made-up beliefs/thoughts! It’s astonishing you need this explaining, here you are doing exactly what you’ve so frequently criticised others for!!

G

 

[castleofargh]

Again, you can’t discuss something in a dedicated thread? This one being the ultimate show of not giving a damn. Head-fi isn’t a chat box, it’s a forum. Someone will look something up, will come to one of our topics and will have to go trough pages and pages of unrelated mess simply because you can’t bother to create a thread(takes like 15 second title included), and write someone’s nickname to make him read and engage at the right place.
Not cool dudes.

I’ll probably delete this thread as I clearly never enforced anything I said I would. I can’t, it’s instantly too much work thanks to a billion off topics per month( number provided by the protesters).

 

[Elegiac]

I thought this was the off-topic sound science thread hahaha, it's in the title and everything. The dedicated rambling thread.
And then the Corner Pub is the off-off-topic thread.

 

[bigshot]

Maybe I'm the only one who has actually used Spatial Audio before. It isn't the same as Atmos, but the advertising tries to blur the line between the two. Atmos is a multichannel format. Spatial Audio is processing performed on two channel audio.

I like to participate in a community, not necessarily a topic. If one of my forum friends wants to discuss something else, that's fine with me. I'll go with the flow.

 

[Davesrose]

Repetition does not make something fact. Atmos has been explained to you, and you still want to claim there's some different stereo source (as well as not showing any evidence of this claim). Once again, Atmos (or spatial audio) processes multiple objects to render a sound field (whether that is going to a set of speakers or a pair of headphones)

What is Apple spatial audio:

"Apple spatial audio takes 5.1, 7.1 and Dolby Atmos signals and applies directional audio filters, adjusting the frequencies that each ear hears so that sounds can be placed virtually anywhere in 3D space. Sounds will appear to be coming from in front of you, from the sides, the rear and even above. The idea is to recreate the audio experience of a cinema."

 

[BobG55]

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[gregorio]

Maybe I'm the only one who has actually used Spatial Audio before.

Nope, but don’t let that stop you.

Atmos is a multichannel format. Spatial Audio is processing performed on two channel audio.

It’s like listening to one of those deluded audiophiles who is convinced of some hair-brained theory they’ve invented to explain something they don’t understand. It’s been explained to you what Dolby Atmos is and how spatial audio works and if you don’t want to believe a word you’ve been told, you can look it up on Wikipedia, research it yourself from Dolby’s published materials or visit one of the sites for engineers and learn from those who use it professionally but you don’t want to do any of those things, you just want to keep spouting the same false nonsense you just made-up. The hypocrisy is mind boggling!!

G