[SK138]

Equipment:
Source:
sk138's Apple MacBook iTune with 16bit and 24bit ripped in lossless or 128kbps to 320kbps AAC format
sk138's Cambridge Audio 840c CD player
slwiser's 5G iMod

DAC:
slwiser's Lavry DA10
sk138's Cambridge Audio 840c DAC via Optical input
sk138's CIA VDA2/VAC with RAL cryo power umbilical

Single Ended Amps:
slwiser's Yamamoto Sound Craft HA-02 with stock tubes
slwiser's Xin Reference (beta)
Edmar's Meier Headsix

Balanced Amps:
sk138's Balanced Mini^3
sk138's Balanced cMoy
sk138's Balanced CIA VHP2/VAC
Bazile's Balanced Lunchbox II (stock tubes)

Headphones:
slwiser's UE9
sk138's Modded Senn HD580 (RnB Grace 5-2 4pin XLR balanced cable)
Edmar's Stock Senn HD580 (Stock HD650 4pin XLR balanced cable - with Single Ended converter)
sk138's Modded Senn HD650 (Cardas 4pin XLR cable)

Accessory and Cables: (inside joke)

HagUSB XLR SPDIF converter
Radio Shack Sound Meter
99.99% NoVEC (Northern VA Electricity Company) Power line (cable)
00.01% Good quality copper cable

Music:
Female Vocal Jazz
Acoustic
Soft Trance
Classic Rock
Uncategorizable Music...to me (inside joke)

First of all, I like to thank Steve (slwiser) for driver over 2 hours to my home for this micro-meet as well as Edmar driving 5 hours from NY to visit me and to attend this micro-meet. I also like to thank Jeff (Bazile) for loaning me his two Lunchbox II amps for this meeting.

Wow!!!...where to do I start....I just like to say first that these are my impressions and by no means a formal review. I don't listen to music analytically. I listen to music to inspire me and to enjoy as good music.

I had two objectives from this meeting. First is how does Cambridge 840c fair against benchmark of performance, the Lavry DA10. Second is how does high performance and highly respected single ended amp fair against "budget" balanced amp(s).

There is absolutely no doubt Yammy sounds extremely good as a single ended tube amp. The bass reaches deep and treble sparkles with best of any SS amps that I heard in the past. The real magic was in the mid tone, especially with female vocals. Prior to listening to Yammy, my ears (and brain) has been sensitized strictly listening to my balanced rigs. To me, balanced and single ended difference was obvious. In single ended, the vocal are forward and in general seem to me 2D sounding where instrumentation is on the same plain. The general characteristic of balanced system, the vocals are few steps back from instrumentation in different plain giving it a more pronounced 3D illusion. The bass and treble also seems to be stretched farther out in balanced than in single ended mode. The air between notes is more noticeable in balanced than single ended as well. Ultimately...which sounds more "realistic"....I would have to say single ended sounds more realistic where vocals and instrumentation collide and blend to make a single coherent music. But I enjoy balanced more, must like I like to put extra sharpening in my picture processing. Thus, it's my personal preference to choose balanced over single ended.

Next...the source (DAC) shoot out. All the listening in this comparison was done using single ended output, and not balanced due to lack of time and lack of extra XLR to balanced RCA cables that's required. I would like to say Cambridge 840c won this battle because I am biased to owning one. Truth be told...there is no clear winner here folks. Lavry DA10 still can hold it's own with new player such as 840c. Generally, 840c is more detailed sounding with most music that synergizes very well with laid back sound of Senn cans. UE9 is already detailed sounding can and I think it sounds better with Lavry than 840c. Also depending on the music that's playing, Lavry is better than 840c and visa versa. There is no night and day difference between these two great DACs. Cambridge does have one advantage of being a CD transport as well as being a DAC.

As we were wrapping up the meet in comparing the two great DACs, Steve suggested we compare the Lavry and 840c against the iMod. I thought he was joking. How can iMod compare against 840c and Lavry? All I can say is, iMod is very good. On lot of the music we casually sampled, I could not tell the difference between iMod and two DACs!!!


Other impressions:
Balanced Lunchbox II amp: Wow!!!...what can I say?! It's the best balanced amp for HD580 that I heard to date. The bass is dumb...dumb deep and mid tone is just incredible with female vocals. Unfortunately, it does not do well with balanced HD650. The bass is over dominating and the veil is back with HD650. I was so impressed with this amp...I purchased one from FS forum. Now, I have to get another one from Craig soon

Thanks again Jeff...it's going back to you soon and I will miss it until I setup my own balanced Lunchbox.

Meier Headsix amp: This little amp is extremely well made and sounds absolutely fantastic for it's size and price. I am holding myself back from getting one since I need to order another Lunchbox II for a balanced configuration

UE9: The bass is deepest anything I heard and detail is just phenomena. But it has one major flaw with me. It's a closed can and I don't like the sense of closed-in sound compare to Senn open cans.

On the side note...I am working on Steve in getting another Yammy for the first balanced Yammy amp with his Lavry DA10

In the end, this was fun meet with some old friends.

Thank you for taking pictures Edmar!

 

[krmathis]

Looks like you had a nice time.
Great write-up and pictures. Thanks!

 

[slwiser]

Thanks to Se for having me and Edmar to his home to listen to his new balanced setups. His wife is always supportive of his visitors with lunch and snacks. Se better take care of her for sure. These are some great pictures of the meet.

These impressions will be presented in a Point - Counterpoint strategy. This may not be completely fair to SK138 since he has not had an opportunity to consider that I would do this but I think this approach may provide some interesting contrasts. All the various combinations we listened to were very engaging but some combinations just provided a little more engagement than others.

Point-SK138; “There is absolutely no doubt Yammy sounds extremely good as a single ended tube amp. The bass reaches deep and treble sparkles with best of any SS amps that I heard in the past. The real magic was in the mid tone, especially with female vocals. Prior to listening to Yammy, my ears (and brain) has been sensitized strictly listening to my balanced rigs. “

Counterpoint Slwiser; I agree that the Yamamoto HA-02 is a fantastic amp for the Ultrasone Edition 9. The musicality of the Yamamoto HA-02 combines with the detail, speed and precision of the UE9 to make some of the best music I have yet to heard with headphones.

Point-SK138; “To me, balanced and single ended difference was obvious.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; I agree to the obvious differences in the nature of the presentation of the music between single-ended and balanced from listening to the HD580 and HD650.

Point-SK138; “In single ended, the vocal are forward and in general seem to me 2D sounding where instrumentation is on the same plain.”

Counterpoint-Slwiser; Here I disagree on the description of how the single-ended sounded. Single-ended to me with the UE9 and HA-02 provides very good environmental detail to locate and place every instrument and voice where it should be. It is in my opinion a more intimate presentation than the balanced that I was hearing. Both presentations in themselves were very good, so don’t take this as a real negative for balanced listening but just my preferences. I enjoy music more when it is presented with emotional and that is what I was hearing better with my single-ended setup. You may very well enjoy the balanced more as SK138 does.

Point-SK138; “The general characteristic of balanced system, the vocals are few steps back from instrumentation in different plain giving it a more pronounced 3D illusion.”

Counterpoint-Slwiser; I agree that this is true with the balanced sound in that the presentation of location is completely different from single-ended. The individual instruments and vocals all have different locations in the fabric of the sound picture compared with single-ended. I am not sure that this presentation is genuine enough for me to enjoy it. Sometimes I felt that the voices/instruments were floating is space at an unrecognizable location.

Point-SK138; “The bass and treble also seems to be stretched farther out in balanced than in single ended mode.”

Counterpoint-Slwiser; This description is consistent with the expansive nature of the balanced sound. The Senns headphones in single-ended just does not do it for me, not being precise enough and clear enough. The added precision and detail from the balanced operation makes me begin to enjoy the Senns in a way that I have not enjoyed them before. I think anyone with Senns would want to go balanced based on what I was hearing this weekend. The single-ended presentation of the UE9 brings precision and focus to all elements of the music for me much like what listening to a balanced Senn headphone begins to do. I didn’t get lost in the fabric of ‘time and space’ with my setup compared with the open nature of the balanced presentation from the Senns. This conclusion could simply be a result of what I am used to listening to and expecting.

Point-SK138; “The air between notes is more noticeable in balanced than single ended as well. Ultimately...which sounds more "realistic"....I would have to say single ended sounds more realistic where vocals and instrumentation collide and blend to make a single coherent music.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; Again I have to agree with these impression.

Point-SK138; “But I enjoy balanced more, must like I like to put extra sharpening in my picture processing. Thus, it's my personal preference to choose balanced over single ended.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; This I agree with that it is definitely a personal preference with the equipment in use here in this meet.

Our main difference in musical presentation preferences seems to be centered on the ‘air’ thing. Where-as, I think that ‘air’ is great in its place, but ‘air’ for it’s on sake is a little of what I found fault with my ATH-W5000 when I compared it to my UE9. The apparent soundstage of the W5000 was almost always larger but the apparent soundstage of the UE9 was always more precise with it’s information. The UE9 simply gives me be the better environment for musical listening. This is the main difference between what I hear in the single-ended UE9 and the balanced Senn headphones. The music is always placed where I think it should be with my UE9 and single-ended Yamamoto HA-02 whereas with the balanced HD580/650, the ‘air’ thing can be a little too much and a little loose (in location not to be understood as in detail) for me.

From my perspective both SK138 and I come together somewhat in how we enjoy our sound with our desire for detail and precision in what we hear. The HD580/650 single-ended seem slow and almost muddy in comparison to the UE9s single-ended to me. The HD580/650 gains speed and precision going balanced and almost equals the UE9 here. Some would probably say surpasses but since I own the UE9 so I will say the UE9 has the lead here, others can disagree. Therefore, balanced provided something extra for the Senns that they don’t naturally have in stock form from my perspective.

Next...the source (DAC) shoot out.

Point – SK138; “All the listening in this comparison was done using single ended output, and not balanced due to lack of time and lack of extra XLR to balanced RCA cables that's required.

Counterpoint Slwiser; I think I did listen to the HD580/650 both single-ended using the adapter and balanced for a short period. Maybe my single-ended Senn impressions were from previous events.

Point-SK138; “ I would like to say Cambridge 840c won this battle because I am biased to owning one.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; From a detail perspective I think the 840c wins against the Lavry. There was enough difference to convincing show that the 840c is the more detailed of the two DACs. Maybe not enough difference to hear it on all tracks but enough never-the-less. I would not call the higher detail out of the 840c harsh in any way. I needed to say this since higher levels of detail can be construed by some as being a bit harsh.

Point SK138; “Truth be told...there is no clear winner here folks. Lavry DA10 still can hold it's own with new player such as 840c. Generally, 840c is more detailed sounding with most music that synergizes very well with laid back sound of Senn cans. UE9 is already detailed sounding can and I think it sounds better with Lavry than 840c. Also depending on the music that's playing, Lavry is better than 840c and visa versa. There is no night and day difference between these two great DACs. Cambridge does have one advantage of being a CD transport as well as being a DAC.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; Here again I have to agree with SK138. Both DACs are very musical but from my equipment-set with the UE9, the less detailed and slightly more musical Lavry synergies best in this context. The HD580/650 needs the extra that comes from the 840c and being balanced to get to where the Yamamoto HA-02 with the UE9 takes me from a perspective of precision and detail. ‘Air’ being another issue altogether and mainly a focus of the headphone presentation which I discussed above.

SK138: “As we were wrapping up the meet in comparing the two great DACs, Steve suggested we compare the Lavry and 840c against the iMod. I thought he was joking.”

Slwiser; No joke intended…just wanted the iMod to get a little love..

Point SK138: “How can iMod compare against 840c and Lavry? All I can say is, iMod is very good. On lot of the music we casually sampled, I could not tell the difference between iMod and two DACs!!!

Counterpoint Slwiser; The limitation to this listening was that we had already spent much of the afternoon critically listening and both of us were tired by this time and these auditions were more quickly done. This may have had some influence on how we heard the music from the little iMod but saying that I have always been impressed with what I have heard from it.

Other impressions:

SK138: “Balanced Lunchbox II amp: Wow!!!...what can I say?! It's the best balanced amp for HD580 that I heard to date. The bass is dumb...dumb deep and mid tone is just incredible with female vocals. Unfortunately, it does not do well with balanced HD650. The bass is over dominating and the veil is back with HD650. I was so impressed with this amp...I purchased one from FS forum. Now, I have to get another one from Craig soon Thanks again Jeff...it's going back to you soon and I will miss it until I setup my own balanced Lunchbox.”

Slwiser; One point that SK138 made during this meet was that the HD580 matches better with tubes compared with the HD650’s which seems sto need a solid state balanced rig. I can agree with this assessment entirely. The HD650 must be harder to control and drive and needs the extra detail that the his solid state Amps provided compared with the Lunchbox’s tubes. This also suggests that SK138 should try a dual Yamamoto HA-02 setup with it’s added detail and precision for his balanced HD650s.

SK138: “Meier Headsix amp: This little amp is extremely well made and sounds absolutely fantastic for it's size and price.”

Slwiser: Again, completely agree. Great amp for the price….I want to thank Edmar for coming down from NY and bringing this amp.

Point-SK138: “UE9: The bass is deepest anything I heard and detail is just phenomena. But it has one major flaw with me. It's a closed can and I don't like the sense of closed-in sound compare to Senn open cans.”

Counterpoint Slwiser; One person’s flaw is another person’s jewel in the case of the UE9 being a closed headphone. Having the closed headphone keeps me more engaged with my family than would otherwise be possible with an open headphone will still being able to have my headphones on.

Point SK138; “ On the side note...I am working on Steve in getting another Yammy for the first balanced Yammy amp with his Lavry DA10.”

Counterpoint Slwiser: Not a chance, I enjoy what I have now and I think that going balanced for me is not in the picture. Balanced requires near twice the investment and twice the footprint for very little added benefit for using my UE9s. If I had the Senns then it would be another story entirely.

Therefore, I will remain completely unbalanced (single-ended) and proud of it.

 

[Goh]

Any impressions of the Xin Reference vs. other amps? Thanks!

 

[slwiser]

The Meier Headsix proved to be very good. For the price and availability it is unmatched by the Xin Reference. For sound I still think the Reference is still the Reference in portables.

 

[grawk]

Wish I could have made it. You guys should come up to glen rock pa for one

 

[dickbianchi]

Enjoyed reading this thread a year later! These impressions are useful. Primary phones are Senn 600 and I want to go balanced. Part of that is a balanced source. Considering the 840 C.