estreeter
Headphoneus Supremus
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O2 vs TOTL
- Thread starter chrislangley4253
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scootsit
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Settle down, folks. This thread has gotten rather hostile in the past few pages.
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Quote:
I could probably build a Beta22 (w/PS) for a fifth of the cost of that. Nice face-plate though.
Really ?
I could probably build a Beta22 (w/PS) for a fifth of the cost of that. Nice face-plate though.
sridhar3
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Quote:
It's a HeadAmp version of the Kevin Gilmore-designed Dynamid (balanced Dynalo): http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/showfile.php?file=gilmore3_prj.htm
Kevin Gilmore is a regular on these forums and the other forum as well. He's been nothing but forthcoming and transparent with regards to design and measurements.
Justin Wilson of HeadAmp does charge a premium for his higher-tier products, but he also tries his best to be a perfectionist, or to get as close to it as possible. HeadAmp builds have amazing build quality, inside and out.
So what's next on your smear campaign? You going to try to piss on the BHSE and say that it measures horribly and sounds like crud?
In the future, you should probably do your due diligence before you mouth off on a public forum.
It's a HeadAmp version of the Kevin Gilmore-designed Dynamid (balanced Dynalo): http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/showfile.php?file=gilmore3_prj.htm
Kevin Gilmore is a regular on these forums and the other forum as well. He's been nothing but forthcoming and transparent with regards to design and measurements.
Justin Wilson of HeadAmp does charge a premium for his higher-tier products, but he also tries his best to be a perfectionist, or to get as close to it as possible. HeadAmp builds have amazing build quality, inside and out.
So what's next on your smear campaign? You going to try to piss on the BHSE and say that it measures horribly and sounds like crud?
In the future, you should probably do your due diligence before you mouth off on a public forum.
sridhar3
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Quote:
Why are you comparing DIY to commercial offerings? You're stating the obvious, as if nobody knew that DIY is cheaper than purchasing commercial builds.
Why are you comparing DIY to commercial offerings? You're stating the obvious, as if nobody knew that DIY is cheaper than purchasing commercial builds.
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Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing any products. It certainly has a spectacular build from what I gleaned the pictures and I'm sure the designer has put a lot of effort into the final product. I just think the price-tag is a bit steep for a headphone amplifier.
paradoxper
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
So you equally feel the same way towards Alex, Peter, and Craig? And furthermore, have you even heard their amps to judge their value?
So you equally feel the same way towards Alex, Peter, and Craig? And furthermore, have you even heard their amps to judge their value?
sridhar3
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Quote:
I didn't misunderstand you. All my post said is that you're comparing the pricing scheme of a DIY build to the pricing scheme of a commercial build. It doesn't make much sense. Also, I don't think you can build and case up a B22/S22 for $500. Just sayin'.
Regarding the pricing on GS-X: All the TOTL e'stat headphone amps on the market cost more. The Liquid Fire costs more. Ray Samuels sells three or four amps that cost as much or more. Eddie Current sells at least two that are as expensive or more expensive. There are plenty of amps out there that meet or exceed the cost of the GS-X. Value proposition is in the eye of the beholder, but it's safe to say that the price point of the GS-X is not unexplored territory by any means.
Edit: Paradoxper beat me to it.
Edit 2: I also forgot to mention Apex, RWA, and anybody making integrated speaker amps with a headphone jack (VTL, Cary, Manley, Luxman, etc.).
I didn't misunderstand you. All my post said is that you're comparing the pricing scheme of a DIY build to the pricing scheme of a commercial build. It doesn't make much sense. Also, I don't think you can build and case up a B22/S22 for $500. Just sayin'.
Regarding the pricing on GS-X: All the TOTL e'stat headphone amps on the market cost more. The Liquid Fire costs more. Ray Samuels sells three or four amps that cost as much or more. Eddie Current sells at least two that are as expensive or more expensive. There are plenty of amps out there that meet or exceed the cost of the GS-X. Value proposition is in the eye of the beholder, but it's safe to say that the price point of the GS-X is not unexplored territory by any means.
Edit: Paradoxper beat me to it.
Edit 2: I also forgot to mention Apex, RWA, and anybody making integrated speaker amps with a headphone jack (VTL, Cary, Manley, Luxman, etc.).
estreeter
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Quote:
And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING STOPPING YOU FROM DOING EXACTLY THAT, although as others have pointed out its not going to happen for 500 bucks. Writing off the amp purely because it is based on one of Kevin's public domain designs is an insult to Justin's workmanship. I posted that photo simply because of the line 'bells and whistles' in the post above it. I would have thought one of the 'whistles' was support for balanced operation - clearly, that isn't going to happen in the ODA.
Finally, I would refer you to the Audio Note DiY site, where the cheapest of their kit amps is around the 1300 USD mark and the majority are over 2K. Sounds steep until you see what Audio Note charge for their commercially manufactured products (Ongaku, anyone) ? It no secret that DiY is the way to go for those with the time and skills, but I wonder how many could turn out a product as beautifully built as the GS-X, inside and out ? Look long and hard at the casework on the Audio Note kits, the photos of the finished products, then take another look at the inside of the GS-X.
http://www.audionotekits.com/
And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING STOPPING YOU FROM DOING EXACTLY THAT, although as others have pointed out its not going to happen for 500 bucks. Writing off the amp purely because it is based on one of Kevin's public domain designs is an insult to Justin's workmanship. I posted that photo simply because of the line 'bells and whistles' in the post above it. I would have thought one of the 'whistles' was support for balanced operation - clearly, that isn't going to happen in the ODA.
Finally, I would refer you to the Audio Note DiY site, where the cheapest of their kit amps is around the 1300 USD mark and the majority are over 2K. Sounds steep until you see what Audio Note charge for their commercially manufactured products (Ongaku, anyone) ? It no secret that DiY is the way to go for those with the time and skills, but I wonder how many could turn out a product as beautifully built as the GS-X, inside and out ? Look long and hard at the casework on the Audio Note kits, the photos of the finished products, then take another look at the inside of the GS-X.
http://www.audionotekits.com/
scootsit
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Speaking of technical advances, a device the size of a Buick was just hurdled 8000 mph at another planet about 154 million miles away, and lowered at less than 1m/sec via sky crane. Also, I believe it landed a few meters off mark.
http://blogs.plos.org/retort/2012/08/05/satisfying-curiosity-preparing-for-the-mars-landing/
Sorry, I know this is very off topic, but my mind is blown.
http://blogs.plos.org/retort/2012/08/05/satisfying-curiosity-preparing-for-the-mars-landing/
Sorry, I know this is very off topic, but my mind is blown.
estreeter
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Quote:
Its also a preamplifier, and those cost an absolute bomb anywhere else in the world of hand-crafted, boutique audio. Often more than the power amps with the big numbers that everyone oohs and aahs about. Headamp dont have their products assembled in China - even if they did, check the prices on Audio-Gd and Shengya gear some time.
I'm posting a photo of the internals of a very famous passive linestage below - its sticker price is 40% of the sticker on the GS-X. Diminishing returns ? Nah - people who have heard this thing swear by it.
Its also a preamplifier, and those cost an absolute bomb anywhere else in the world of hand-crafted, boutique audio. Often more than the power amps with the big numbers that everyone oohs and aahs about. Headamp dont have their products assembled in China - even if they did, check the prices on Audio-Gd and Shengya gear some time.
I'm posting a photo of the internals of a very famous passive linestage below - its sticker price is 40% of the sticker on the GS-X. Diminishing returns ? Nah - people who have heard this thing swear by it.
LizardKing1
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I think someone mentioned that the ODA is supposed to include a pre-amplifier as well.
scootsit
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qusp
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I think you guys are confused as to what a preamp is/does. a preamp is primarily for 4 things
1. providing multiple inputs and source switching (not all do, but most do)
2. providing a high input impedance and a low output impedance, thus buffering the source from the amp
3. provide volume control
4. provide voltage and/or current gain
the ODAC does not include a preamp, but it does not need one
no, most dacs do not have an internal opamp, only the voltage output ones do, perhaps most do fall into this category these days, but many high performance dacs are still current out.
1. providing multiple inputs and source switching (not all do, but most do)
2. providing a high input impedance and a low output impedance, thus buffering the source from the amp
3. provide volume control
4. provide voltage and/or current gain
the ODAC does not include a preamp, but it does not need one
no, most dacs do not have an internal opamp, only the voltage output ones do, perhaps most do fall into this category these days, but many high performance dacs are still current out.
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