NWO 2.5t Who has heard or heard of it?
Mar 26, 2007 at 7:00 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 47

neilvg

Headphoneus Supremus
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Hey guys & gals,

So, I got a chance to listen to an NWO 2.5t at designer Alex Paychev's house today. For those of you who don't know, this is a CD/DVD-A/SACD player designed by Apl HiFi based off of the Esoteric UX-1. It basically uses the chassis and the VRDS transport of the UX-1, and discards the rest for a completely new design.

All incoming signals are upsampled to 5.4 GHZ after processing via 20 parallel AKM DAC's per channel. Additionally, the player has a balanced tube output stage (6H30 tubes). The DAC section is accessible via a digital input. Future features will also include an Analog Input, a a WIFI interface as well as direct proprietary connection for the Squeezebox. Additionally, there will be a Flash input where a Flash Drive will be able to be connected to the player. Whatever is being played will automatically be recorded to the flash drive in a sort of library fashion. Additionally, the flash drive can also play instead of the transport, which will be another way of accessing and playing digital music. Alex says using the DVD transport is still the best way in terms of Fidelity. So it seems that this is basically an Integrated pre-amp/DVD Player of sorts. It also has built in volume attenuatation so it can be connected directly to your amps - in fact this is the recommended route. This is a 2ch player with the video fully preserved and a digital out for connection to a surround processor if desired.

What interested me the most was that this player has been put head to head against some of the very best players out there: The full DCS Stack, the EMM Labs SE combo, the new Metronome Kalista (whoa take a look at that thing - http://www.metronome-technologie.com..._2.jpg?r=2548), the MBL 1621/1611, the Meridian 808, and on and on).

In almost every case, the seemingly unassociated with Alex or Apl reviewers picked the NWO 2.5t to be far and away the most natural, realistic, and involving source. The interesting thing was, they certainly were not dejecting the other players at all, and it seems the EMM Labs was chosen as the second best. So anyway, Alex invited me over to listen to his creation.

Alex has also created his own Amp, Speakers, Cables AND Turntable. His setup is pretty amazing. So I bring a bunch of CD's/DVD-A's/SACD's I am familiar with...

...I swear up until now, I would tell you that I believed only top end headphones could retrieve the kind of detail I was hearing. There were songs I have heard probably thousands of times (Rudiger by Mark Knophler for instance) that practically sounded brand new! It was kind of a revelation. I wasn't sure if his associated equipment, or his player was in large part the cause of this. So we hooked up my unmodifed UX-1 and took a listen. It sounded amazing! But it did NOT sound like the NWO. Not even close. It did not sound like the EMM Labs. Not even close. The EMM sounds good, excellent, amazing. But it sounds like a reproduction. Now usually I am not about reproducing the sound of a CD in the hopes of attaining something that sounds like real life. I have never previously thought that quite possible, or even necessarily desirable. But what is amazing about this player is that it simultaneously provides a highly euphonic yet extremely natural and lifelike presentation with a sound stage that is huge - almost too huge.

Anyway, I realize I am spilling my guts in praise here, so I will stop. I'll have to see what it sounds like when I get it back here and I can connect it to my HE90/HEV90 or the HE90/ES-1 combo (still as of yet unreceived).

One other thing that is interesting is that Alex has taken the output of his vinyl setup and input it into a highly modified PCI card in his computer which also has the AKM AD converter. He samples it at 192/24 and burns it via Discwelder. He then plays it on the NWO 2.5t and also on the Vinyl setup it originally came from. No difference can be heard! With 96/24 he claims a difference can be heard (hell if I know), but the sound quality was striking none the less. An interesting experiment. Maybe somebody could go into business converting a high-end vinyl drop to DVD? =)

Has anybody else been following this player?

Neil
 
Mar 26, 2007 at 10:59 PM Post #2 of 47
Nevermind. I deleted my original reply and I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide upon. Creating a thread like this in Head-Fi.Org is asking too much from this community in my humble opinion.
 
Mar 26, 2007 at 11:47 PM Post #3 of 47
This player is on my short list so it's great to read your impressions. This along with RAM is on the cutting edge of modding, each with their own method.

I think the 5.4 GHz is a bit optimistic since I think it is 211KHz/32bits but I could be wrong.
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 5:40 AM Post #4 of 47
Oh, I've been following Alex's progress since the beginning. I even had my old Cary CD301 tubed CDP modified by Alex before he became so busy with his Philips 1000 mods.

The feud between APL and RAM is an interesting read all by itself
smily_headphones1.gif


I will never buy NWO 2.5t b/c I don't believe in spending that kind of money for an audio component; but I can see how those who can afford it will love it.

In A-B comparison situations, most people will simply prefer the tubed CDP over SS CDP. With most digital music, tubes usually will sound less digital, more harmonic, more approachable, and simply more enjoyable.

However, once you live with the tubed CDP, one starts to miss the Nth degree of detail resolution, spitfire speed, anvil bass definition of the first-rate SS players.

APL NWO 2.5t should fit in here nicely by retaining the undeniable virtues of a good tubed output stage, yet NOT sacrifice the other attributes. APL achieves this by starting with state-of-art VRDS NEO drive and the cutting-edge digital circuitry of the Esoteric. Yet they gut out the DA chips and stock output stage completely and replace them with insane number of parallel AKM 4396 DA chips and the 6H30 sledge hammer tubed output stage. Everything is overdone to the extreme with no expense spared.

If you're gonna go with tubed output stage, this is the only way to go in order not to sacrifice resolution and speed compared great SS output stages.

Congratulations on your new source, and we all live vicariously by you
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 6:33 AM Post #5 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by Welly Wu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nevermind. I deleted my original reply and I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide upon. Creating a thread like this in Head-Fi.Org is asking too much from this community in my humble opinion.


What are you talking about???
blink.gif


===

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer
I think the 5.4 GHz is a bit optimistic since I think it is 211KHz/32bits but I could be wrong.


Well I'm just parrotting what Alex has told me.

===

If I have it by the national meet, I will surely bring it.

This CDP will be for my upcoming Kharma (haven't fully decided on the speakers though) Midi Exquisite Speakers. So it's not for headphones. The EMM Gear sounds amazing with the Orpheus and I dare say this might be overkill.

Neil
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 6:40 AM Post #6 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Congratulations on your new source, and we all live vicariously by you
smily_headphones1.gif



Neil,

I ditto Jon's sentiments
icon10.gif
, but to you buy this yet?
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 6:51 AM Post #7 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by utep10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Neil,

I ditto Jon's sentiments
icon10.gif
, but to you buy this yet?



Yup. It takes 6 weeks so I may not have it, but Alex knows about the meet so maybe. He thinks I'm crazy for listening to headphones. But he is interested in hearing the Orpheus which intrigues him.

Neil
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 7:35 AM Post #8 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well I'm just parrotting what Alex has told me.

===

If I have it by the national meet, I will surely bring it.

This CDP will be for my upcoming Kharma (haven't fully decided on the speakers though) Midi Exquisite Speakers. So it's not for headphones. The EMM Gear sounds amazing with the Orpheus and I dare say this might be overkill.

Neil



Upsampling to 5.4 GHz would take a lot of computing power. The older NWO 2.5 upsampled everything to 211KHz but he could have changed that along with the tube type for the 2.5T.

I like Alex and his design goals and the fact that his products are rally never out of date. If he comes up with something better you can send your old kit in for an upgrade. He uses simple and straight forward designs that work. No fancy over engineering just to impress the customer. You should try some of his cables with the player. These simple silver cables are the way to go even if they are relatively cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The feud between APL and RAM is an interesting read all by itself
smily_headphones1.gif




Some of the RAM stuff is way out there. While I get the use of different lacquers with musical instruments will yield better/different sound but dosing electronics with it is a little nutty. Still there are quite a few similarities with how RAM and Apl do things.
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 7:49 AM Post #9 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Upsampling to 5.4 GHz would take a lot of computing power. The older NWO 2.5 upsampled everything to 211KHz but he could have changed that along with the tube type for the 2.5T.

I like Alex and his design goals and the fact that his products are rally never out of date. If he comes up with something better you can send your old kit in for an upgrade. He uses simple and straight forward designs that work. No fancy over engineering just to impress the customer. You should try some of his cables with the player. These simple silver cables are the way to go even if they are relatively cheap.



Yeah those cables were extremely transparent, warm and revealing. He has a reason for everything, and it is usually quite simple. When he needs to make things more complex, he usually explains it in a very straight forward (relatively) manner. He came across to me as a very honest and passionate guy. He says what he feels regardless of politics, and I get the feeling he is really doing it for the love of audio.

Unfortunately the love also comes with a large price tag. Very large.

Neil
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 8:35 AM Post #10 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yeah those cables were extremely transparent, warm and revealing. He has a reason for everything, and it is usually quite simple. When he needs to make things more complex, he usually explains it in a very straight forward (relatively) manner. He came across to me as a very honest and passionate guy. He says what he feels regardless of politics, and I get the feeling he is really doing it for the love of audio.

Unfortunately the love also comes with a large price tag. Very large.

Neil



A very large price tag indeed. I've been using cables very similar to his for a few years and they are the best I've heard but I'm more partial to cotton as an insulator. This is because of the slight smear effect teflon has but if you use a wider teflon tube this is reduced by a huge margin.

I find it funny to read Alex's posts on Audiogon and AA where he is bashing the competition but he is most often right and people don't like it. His views on the transports many manufactures use are spot on. I hate the transport Meridian uses and while they claim it is better the real reason is that it is cheap.
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 11:25 AM Post #11 of 47
major drool, I have wanted one of Alex's creations for a while. The 2.5 is way out of my league but I have pondered the 3900 chassis player he makes. But in his rating system the stock player is a 1 his is a 5-6 and the 2.5 is a 12. But the 3900s can be found for around 4 grand which is in my neighborhood 25k would be impossible but I envy those that can and I really look forward to finally hearing one of APLs products. I can't wait to hear your comparison to the emm labs
 
Mar 27, 2007 at 3:06 PM Post #12 of 47
I will definitely post impressions. Like I said before, my listening experience over at his place blew me away. Never have a heard anything quite like it. And it was clearly the source since the stock UX-1 was an obvious difference.

The stock used UX-1 can be had for as low as $5500 if you wait for a deal on Audiogon. Alex will mod the player for ~ 12K (moving up to 15K after may). So it is not quite that high, yet.

Although the prices of used UX-1's have gone up solely due to Alex's mods.

Neil
 
Mar 28, 2007 at 1:49 AM Post #13 of 47
Congrats, can't wait to hear the impressions on this one! From a technical standpoint I am interested in the "20 parallel AKM DAC's" and how they are implemented. I am curious whether the signal is sent through all 20 in steps (like 20x oversampling?) or rather they are used in some type of deca-differential circuitry madness. I have only searched briefly the APL forums but have yet to figure this one out. Either way it seems to be a true marvel in the audio world right now. Enjoy!
 
Mar 28, 2007 at 2:10 AM Post #14 of 47
Congrats Neil, I have one of Alex's modded SACD1000s and I can only imagine how good his modded esoteric players sound.

Also unless he changed things I believe those 6h30s are transformer coupled.
 
Mar 28, 2007 at 2:51 AM Post #15 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by asebastian0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Congrats, can't wait to hear the impressions on this one! From a technical standpoint I am interested in the "20 parallel AKM DAC's" and how they are implemented. I am curious whether the signal is sent through all 20 in steps (like 20x oversampling?) or rather they are used in some type of deca-differential circuitry madness. I have only searched briefly the APL forums but have yet to figure this one out. Either way it seems to be a true marvel in the audio world right now. Enjoy!


Its quad mono with 10 mono dacs stacked per channel. Stacking dacs provides a better signal to noise ratio but some say at the tradeoff of musicality.

@Neil:The speakers sound exciting too although I really dont think that a better source would outclass the Orpheus/ES-1 combo but you should try for yourself once you get the ES-1.
 

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