[bigshot]

This place has great Disco box sets, and not just the regular suspects. https://www.vinyl-masterpiece.com/

 

[Davesrose]

Are you going to see it on Imax? I read Imax is like seeing 3D without needing the glasses. Some viewers felt sick watching the Hobbit shown at 48fps do Imax pictures create problems for viewers with too much to take in?

IMAX is Nolan's intended format...but I'm going to wait to see it on home media. I'm now having issues with my local multiplex with IMAX having audio that's way too loud. I saw an interview where Nolan said he was using some new B&W film emulsions for better dynamic range and detail. I find it interesting to hear his ideas about why he prefers film over digital: some of them I don't agree with. Like he claimed that film is closer to the human eye, but I don't see it that way. The eye scans and accommodates: so it has much higher capabilities with dynamic range (which new digital technologies are better at) and our visual acuity is also dependent on the environment's light levels.

I remember the first time I saw a large IMAX like movie was an Epcot ride at Disney World when I was a kid. I didn't find it particularly "3D" like, but it was very encompassing to have an image that took up all your peripheral vision. Most of the IMAX viewing I've experienced actually is 3D glasses (went to see Avatar 2 in IMAX 3D for the experience). Part of the problem with 3D goggles is that it darkens the image compared to seeing a traditional 2D image. So I think that and keeping track of active or passive glasses kept 3d blu-rays a niche. The first generation 4K OLEDs supported 3D, but all current TVs don't. Some people say 4K is more lifelike because of HDR (we've just incremented from 256 shades of tone to 1024: we can have more room for improvement).

As for feeling sick watching a movie: apparently some early movie goers felt that way with the first Nickelodeons. For them, it seemed way too real that moving train was going right towards them if it came close and off the screen. I have Gemini Man in 60fps...I do find that the motion is pretty drastic compared to the normal 24fps. It starts early on when you see a high speed train pass sideways. I suppose it's better and more crisp compared to other TV modes: that try to interpolate 24fps to 60fps (and highlight the "soap opera" effect). I think there's more people who feel disoriented with VR goggles. I have an Oculus Quest 2, and never experienced it myself. I've heard that it can be due to your eyes getting different input than your perception of your environment. Or also if there's lag due to poor refresh rate.

 

[Davesrose]

Most people in a discussion acknowledge someone else's point and then start the next sentence with "And" and add more information. Over and over you started with "But" as if your additional information negated what I said. That's why I stopped discussing. I was waiting for you to acknowledge before moving on, but over and over you wouldn't. Very argumentative and defensive. I don't see discussions as contests, and I don't enjoy discussions with people who do. You'll get further with me if you engage in conversation *with* me, not against me. I know you're not the only person here who does that, and you're certainly not the worst, but it isn't pleasant no matter who does it. It discourages me from chatting with you. I'm here to enjoy myself and share and be shared with, and I'm looking for other people with the same goals.

I'll try to be better about "and" myself, if you do the same. There's been several instances where you state something that's not completely right, and after I give details, you ignore that and insist on sticking with the original stream of thought. I won't rehash image editing. But your insistence in not acknowledging the differences between Dolby Pro Logic I, II, and what point home media switched to discrete 5.1 is an example (the discussion ending with you insisting you had to find me a Dolby Pro Logic I processor, even though what remaining DVDs I still have are Dolby Digital). With our latest exchanges, it seems you just want to be critical about my opinions: so be it because everyone has opinions. It would be refreshing if you acknowledge them as opinions and not that only some people know the skill of discernment. I don't know if there's some disconnect with the medium of internet, or perhaps I also have become conditioned in this forum after having to weed through semantics with gregorio. I will try to see if I can have more positive exchanges with you: there is hope since we both have interests in animation, cinema history, and BBQ

 

[bigshot]

Disagreement with opinions is something everyone needs to be able to accept without holding grudges. It's part of life. We're all individuals with different values. If you just aren't able to communicate in a friendly manner, I'll just do with you like I do with Gregorio and talk past you to the other people in the conversation. I don't want to do that, but if it's impossible for you to modulate your tone, I'll just shrug my shoulders and move on without you. That would be disappointing because as you say, we have several interests in common.

One thing I've learned in my job is to address problems directly. I don't think it's productive to ignore things or pretend they don't exist. I want to make it clear that I'm not angry or upset, I'm just not enjoying communicating with you and I want you to understand why. I'm here to share, not argue. I choose to communicate with people who feel the same way.

 

[gregorio]

There's been several instances where you state something that's not completely right, and after I give details, you ignore that and insist on sticking with the original stream of thought.

You’re accusing bigshot/us of staying on-topic (or the current topic of discussion) and ignoring your off-topic agenda?

I also have become conditioned in this forum after having to weed through semantics with gregorio.

You don’t have “to weed through semantics”, you choose to! And, why choose to argue semantics anyway?

If you just aren't able to communicate in a friendly manner, I'll just do with you like I do with Gregorio and talk past you to the other people in the conversation.

And sometimes that’s exactly the problem which leads to an “unfriendly manner”! Occasionally your opinions are contrary to the science, established facts or the perceptions of others but instead of addressing this, you simply “talk past” those/me challenging your opinion and just repeat the same falsehood over and over. In these cases, what “you’ll just do”, is therefore effectively trolling!

G

 

[71 dB]

This place has great Disco box sets, and not just the regular suspects. https://www.vinyl-masterpiece.com/

Thanks for sharing this link! I did not know this online shop.

 

[Ryokan]

You’re accusing bigshot/us of staying on-topic (or the current topic of discussion) and ignoring your off-topic agenda?

If you continually knock down a spiders web eventually the spider will make them just using a few strands. It isn't an 'off topic agenda', more a way of dealing with conversations that often get confrontational fast.

 

[gregorio]

It isn't an 'off topic agenda', more a way of dealing with conversations that often get confrontational fast.

I’m not quite sure how theatrical film formats are on the topic of why some EDM tracks are 2:30 in duration?

G

 

[Ryokan]

I’m not quite sure how theatrical film formats are on the topic of why some EDM tracks are 2:30 in duration?

G

Your answer is likely to be found in the first four pages, not much more can be said. The conversation moved on to film duration to find if there's any link. When film was mentioned it led to other aspects being discussed, which seems natural, especially as only a few mainly contribute to these threads and the original poster doesn't participate. Anyone can return to the initial question if they've anything to add.

 

[gregorio]

The conversation moved on to film duration to find if there's any link.

Yes, someone stated the trend of shorter EDM tracks was matched by a similar trend in film, indicating a more general cultural trend which EDM was just following/influenced by. So discussing film duration had some relevance to the topic, although this trend to shorter content is not applicable to films, which are trending towards longer or remaining largely the same. I don’t see how arguments about film formats are at all related to the topic though?

G

 

[bigshot]

Your answer is likely to be found in the first four pages, not much more can be said.

Yes, it was answered- the length of 3 to 4 minutes for a song goes back to the earliest days of disk records, when a 10 inch record was 3 to 4 minutes long. This format was continued with 45rpm "singles". Songs got a little bit longer in the LP era, to fit 10 songs on the two sides of an LP. Each side of an LP runs between 20 and 25 minutes maximum, so songs were between 4 and 5 minutes long on average. The placement of the hit songs on an LP was dictated by inner groove distortion. The sound quality of a song at the beginning of an album side is better than at at the end, so hits tended to be put in the first couple of positions on a side. In the Disco era, 12 inch 45rpm singles were released, running 7 to 10 minutes in length, depending on the song and mix. This was the format and length of choice for dance clubs. This allowed the groove to get started and people dancing. I'm guessing EDM either isn't danced to in clubs as much, or perhaps the songs are short because it's expected for a DJ to mix them on the fly into a montage of tracks for a dance club.

 

[gregorio]

Yes, it was answered- the length of 3 to 4 minutes for a song goes back to the earliest days of disk records, when a 10 inch record was 3 to 4 minutes long.

This was indeed the answer you gave but it didn’t provide the actual answer because it’s incorrect. In the “earliest days of disk records” the duration matched those of cylinder records, which was about 2 minutes. The 10” 78 had a theoretical absolute limit of 3:30 but typically only around 3 minutes was usable. How then could the standard 3-4 minute length of “Pop Music” be influenced by disks that could only hold up to around 3 minutes? The answer obviously is that they couldn’t! Traditional popular songs were 3 minutes or less, not the 3 - 4 minutes of “Pop Music”.

This format was continued with 45rpm "singles".

No, it didn’t continue, it changed, it got longer. 7” 45s “singles” had a maximum duration of up to 5:20, which obviously did allow a duration of 3-4 minutes. In fact, it obviously allowed a duration up to around 5 minutes but very few pop music songs were that long, 3:20 - 4:00 accounted for nearly all pop music songs with around 3:30 - 3:40 being particularly common. Clearly, there was some factor at play other than just the maximum usable duration of the disks!

“At the beginning of the 20th century, the early discs played for two minutes, the same as cylinder records.[38] The 12-inch disc, introduced by Victor in 1903, increased the playing time to three and a half minutes.[39] Because the standard 10-inch 78 rpm record could hold about three minutes of sound per side, most popular recordings were limited to that duration.[40]” - Wikipedia

G