[sethsez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkozlows It won't kill the iPod instantly, but give it time, and it can probably do to the iPod what the Xbox is doing to the PlayStation.

Take a relatively small chunk of the market locally and bomb overseas?

The videogame market is generally defined by whoever loses as much as by whoever wins. Massive mistakes that hand the market to a competitor (Atari's hubris, Nintendo's carts and Sega's fumbled Saturn launch, etc.) are what determines the flow of popularity, because without big screwups inertia is extremely strong. To carry the analogy over, Apple is going to have to give Microsoft an opening by completely screwing up a generation, and I don't see Apple letting that happen. They're too shrewd, much moreso than anyone in the videogame business has ever been, and their extreme conservatism thus far has served them extremely well.

The Zune will do well just by virtue of Microsoft's bottomless pockets, but I don't think Apple has too much to fear.

 

[blessingx]

According to this NYTimes article, the Zune may be just a forerunner for a MS "MP3-cellphone-e-mail-camera device."

 

[mitchjordan]

Do we know when the Zune will be out? Or how much it will be cost?

Did they tell us something new?

 

[wax4213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood No FLAC? No DiVX? No Thanks. -Ed

I'm with you, the combination of a relatively small hard drive and no support for DiVX (or Xvid) and FLAC pretty much knocks it out of my book. The interface looks sleek, but I need format support!

 

[blessingx]

I gotta ask the FLAC fans, what's up with that? I know FLAC has replaygain support, but since that's not discussed much around here, why all the FLAC-or-no talk? If you like a portable (and use a comp player that supports multi-codecs) why get up in arms for one lossless over another? I guess there are no Monkeys-or-else or Apple Lossless-or-else people around, so why the difference with FLAC? If it's the open source question you didn't actually expect Microsoft to have it on their player did you?

 

[EFN]

It's a lot easier to bash one product than to appreciate what impact does it offer to us. This will hike up the competition positively and we can expect more manufacturer fighting to offer better product at cheaper prices. I wholeheatedly welcome Zune into the DAP world - hoping that this will prompt Apple and Creative and even Toshiba themselves to be sweating on getting their product even more attractive. I will be a trully happy DAP enthusiast the day I can afford to buy brand new 80GB iPod at $299......

 

[blessingx]

Well you can already get 60gb new lookin' refurbs from Apple for $229. You may not have long to wait. Then again maybe the emphasis was on "afford."

 

[erlik]

We are still missing a lot of critical info, but my first impression of this device isn't good.

To be interesting it needs to either:

Offer a high resolution screen, good codec support (including DIVX and non protected AAC) and other wifi services beside "limited" media sharing such as web browsing, video streaming, games, etc... (like archos plans for the 406 wifi), so as to beat the ipod on functionality and features

or

Offer solid basics such as a good screen, good battery life, ease of use and sound quality for a low price, so as to beat the ipod on price and ease of use.

From the impression I got I don't see either of those things happening.

Quote:

this might be an interesting shift for the DAP/music industry. if MS pushes the Zune media store hard, we might be seeing something similar to console pricing: manufacturers taking a loss on players, but making it up in selling games.

The only way this would work is if they tied the player to a subscription service (such as napster) and they prevented music from any other source to be put on the machine (not even you own mp3s or CDs). I think this would only appeal to a limited user base at best. Most people view their music collection a something they want to keep forever and a to a bit at a time, not an utility like cellphones.

To really do like the consoles they would need to deliver "zune specific music" that is much better than "normal CD/mp3 music" so customers re-buy their collections and make new purchases in "zune music", and they charge something like 20 cents on each track in "zune music" format. This happened in the case of LP to CD, this happens in the case of PS2 versus Xbox360 (because we want more eye candy), this won't happen with music as most people don't need more "ear candy" than CD delivers already, at least in portable format.

 

[wax4213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I gotta ask the FLAC fans, what's up with that? I know FLAC has replaygain support, but since that's not discussed much around here, why all the FLAC-or-no talk? If you like a portable (and use a comp player that supports multi-codecs) why get up in arms for one lossless over another? I guess there are no Monkeys-or-else or Apple Lossless-or-else people around, so why the difference with FLAC? If it's the open source question you didn't actually expect Microsoft to have it on their player did you?

For me, it's merely the fact that my music is in FLAC, and I don't currently have the hard drive space to keep an ALAC or WAV or WMA whatever copy of my whole library. I do have a LAME V2 copy of everything, so I could listen to all of my music on the Zune, but I much prefer support for FLAC, whether I would use it often or not. DiVX and Xvid, on the other hand, are so widely used that it would be inconvenient for me to try to use the Zune without support for them, assuming I was to be watching movies on it.

I'm not FLAC or nothing sort of guy really, but it is a nice lossless codec that decodes quickly, which lends itself to potential portable use. My Rockboxed iPod handles FLAC wonderfully, but I find the Rockbox interface lacking. I'm holding off on getting a new DAP for a little while, except for a really small one for gym use. New Nano or Shuffle anyone

?

 

[FaBoLoUsRmX]

Thanks for the youtube vid, i cant help but say the interface is quite nice and the screen is very big. I think it might do fairly well depending on the price.

 

[volcomjerk]

Like I said only the critical buyers are actually thinking about what player to buy. Every other person, mom, dad, kids, chicks, jocks, and gods will buy an iPod. It's worked it's way into every home with every accessory you can think of and it's ease of use and design is by far a winner. No way in hell would I get a Zune even if it does have 239058230498 features because I'd never sit there and use them.

I've bought an iAudio X5 and while it was awesome with features I always found myself going back to the iPod. Why??? Because a portable audio player is out to do one MAIN thing... say it with me kids... PLAY MUSIC. There's only .0000000000001% of the people that actually freakin care if it can play OGG, FLAC, SMACK, or CRACK. Ask your mom or any "normal" person what that is and they'd think you were sniffin the ol' Elmers glue again. Apple knows what they are doing, they know what the mass consumer market wants. All I care about is using my MUSIC player with EASE. I understand people love Lossless and their OGGs but it's just freakin portable audio for crying out loud and it's limited by many factors at which you have to pay a high price to get 1% closer to your home rigs. All I know is when I use my portable player anywhere other than home I'm not thinking hmmm I wonder what bitrate this is??? I'm freakin rockin out to my latest greatest tune on the go.

The Zune or (insert feature rich player here w/ bonus features to wipe your ass)... is just another player for the minor market to grab for those who really thinks their life depends on the codec and if it can play HDTV and feeds you popcorn.

That's my blunt opinion on other players.

 

[Wodgy]

I disagree with those who suggest this means more competition. It could very well do the opposite. By not supporting PlaysForSure, Microsoft is killing or dealing a very strong blow to the PlaysForSure market, both for music vendors/subscription services and DRM-enabled devices. Whether or not the Zune succeeds, we could end up with a situation where there are only two or three online music vendors left (iTunes Store, MyZune, and perhaps Rhapsody). That would be bad for consumers.

Microsoft's corporate strategy here is mystifying. There must have been an internal battle between Allard's group and the WM/PlaysForSure group. Allard may have won for political reasons, but from a strategy perspective, killing PlaysForSure just as it was building momentum makes little sense.

 

[K2Grey]

Volcomjerk: remember, iPod supports ALAC.

 

[volcomjerk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey Volcomjerk: remember, iPod supports ALAC.

I know but to me that's just a bonus. I use Lossless but I don't benefit much from it on the go. I think Lossless is great for home rigs. All I'm sayin is that Apple can provide kick ass prices because they are keeping their players basic. They know the PMP market isn't ripe enough yet. I've never seen anyone carry around a true PMP like an iAudio A2 or a Creative PMP. If the consumer really wanted a PMP player that bad I think we'd be seeing Apple springing on that. They got smarter and more conservative moves up their sleeves.

 

[JefferyK]

Is there ANY online subscription-based media service that has succeeded? I can't think of one. Maybe Netflix? It's pretty much a failed business model. I can't imagine what Microsoft's service could offer that would make it an exception.

Is there really a demand for restricted song-sharing over Wi-Fi? When I was growing up, the way we shared music was by playing it through speakers.

I like the way the Zune looks--the new iPod Nano colors seem really stale--but it doesn't offer me any functionality that I need and can't get elsewhere.