[rickcr42]

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...slation/1.html

if not live music as the guage and trying to recreate the real what is the point o fit all ?

to reproduce the studio ?

If so then why not just get a list of the equipment used,buy it then say you are done upgrading/improving forever unless or until they upgrade ?

when Hi-fi becomes the standard and not the live event i think we should also take the perferomer out of the performance

 

[00940]

I fully agree with the author. Only problem is that I'm not sure the translator I like for each kind of music is the same.

 

[morphie]

I totally agree with you, from an audiophile point of view, Live recordings should be prioritized. Personally I just enjoy what sounds good, not what sounds real

That guy has, imho, the terms audiophile and music lover wrong.

 

[Dane]

As I read it he's simply saying that live and recorded misic should be judged in it's own right. Can't see anything wrong in that.

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...slation/1.html if not live music as the guage and trying to recreate the real what is the point o fit all ? to reproduce the studio ? If so then why not just get a list of the equipment used,buy it then say you are done upgrading/improving forever unless or until they upgrade ? when Hi-fi becomes the standard and not the live event i think we should also take the perferomer out of the performance

I concur. For me, its even more than hearing music live and using that as my reference, i actually know and am proficient in the instruments that i listen to. Why the hell would i want to listen to a ondes martenot if it doesnt sound like an ondes martenot? Or my infamous example of how trumpets can sometimes be so colored that they sound like flugelhorns, if its a trumpet it should sound like one, enough said

 

[Figo]

I play in my Highschool wind ensemble(euphonium) and marching unit which is 200 strong(valve trombone)...

I can safely say no Hifi system will ever accurately reproduce a line of 5 bass drums and 8 snares. ever. EVER. Not even taking into account the other 187 instruments..

I can also say no Hifi system that I have heard can approach the power of the 1812 overture we play for this spring concert, even though we are only 40 strong.

And I can also say that no hifi system will ever get the true tonality of an instrument right. Metal will never sound like wood. Paper won't either.


I can say that I love Hifi and don't think twice about spending my hard earned cash (and time!!) on it. Love Hifi for what it is, and love music for what it is. Judge as you please, as long as it makes you happy

I choose single driver horns, battery powered NONos DAC and battery powered amp(want to try tubes soon!). Sennheiser are nice too.

Then again, who am I but a seventeen year old fool? I live to learn.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

I can safely say no Hifi system will ever accurately reproduce a line of 5 bass drums and 8 snares. ever. EVER. Not even taking into account the other 187 instruments

Listen to well recorded marching band music on a good horn system then say that.
It may actually scare you in a room to hear something meant to be played in the open air caged up and in your face at original spls

 

[drewd]

I saw the Eagles in concert a few years ago. It was great, it was fun, I loved it. The sound quality was pretty bad. Musically, I enjoy what comes out of my audio system much more than what I heard at the concert - but I'd see the Eagles again if they came back to Boise.

On the other hand, my wife and I regularly go to the Boise Philharmonic every month. We also hang out at a few places downtown on the weekends now and then that have small group jazz performers. Musically, I enjoy what I hear at those venues more than what I hear from my audio system.

The obvious difference, I'm sure, is that at the rock concert, I hear the music through an audio system, one that is designed first for volume and second for sonic quality (or so I assume). I suspect that if the Eagles were playing acoustically, I'd be more thrilled with the music, as music, live, rather than from a CD.

The Philharmonic plays at the Morrison Center, one of the top performing arts centers in the country (acoustically speaking) and, sonically, it really makes a difference. No amplification necessary, thanks - each instrument is on its own. Same with the cozy little clubs that we listen to our jazz in.

So those are the standards by which I judge music - I think that I fall in with Rick on this one, for the most part. The live music that I listen to is the gold standard - most of the time.

Funny thing, when I was a senior in high school, about a million years ago, I worked at Radio Shack, back when they sold stereos instead of computers. The district manager had a pretty good definition of the goal of a high fidelity sound system: to faithfully reproduce the sound of the recording. Of course, most of the gear there didn't really accomplish the goal, but that's another story

-Drew

 

[jjcha]

I don't really see how his analogy works....

"If you understand the original, why would you need the translation?"

My ears and brain do understand the sound of a live performance. Wouldn't it be natural that I'd want a facsimile of that performance be as true to the original as possible? It's not like Japanese to English - there's no need for translation. Sound to my ears and brain is sound to my ears and brain, regardless of whether it's live or from my speakers/headphones.

And this is coming from a guy who listens to crappy pop music, where the recordings aren't even meant to emulate the live performances thereof.

Best,

-Jason

 

[PeterR]

Fewer and fewer people have any idea what unamplified instruments in a real acoustic space ("The Absolute Sound") may sound like, and couldn't care less if their system makes an effort to reproduce it. And why would they, as the music they listen to hasn't anything to do with real instruments in a real environment either. The problem is without the common denominator of the real thing everything becomes arbitrary. Everybody speaks his own language he need translating into. And that's probably exactly the state of high end audio we're seeing, a babylonian confusion of tongues.
Of course to each his own, if somebody strives after a system that's doesn't try to be faithful to the recording, but gives him more listening pleasure, more power to him, sure. But for me that pleasure would be short-lived. It means you're actually listening to your equipment, not to the music. And if whatever you play is flavoured with the same uniform sonic signature added by your system, it will become boring sooner or later, driving you into the next upgrade for your new fix. Of course there is no perfectly neutral piece of equipment, but shouldn't that be the goal nevertheless? Some people make this about what sounds 'right' vs. what sounds 'good'. But I actually like the way real instruments sound, so there's no conflict for me. When listening to my system I want to be able to at least catch a glimpse of what I might have heard would I have been in the room where the original event took place. And in the few moments I actually manage to do so, I couldn't be any happier.

 

[darkclouds]

If I read it correctly, it seems like he's saying, pick a system that will bring you closer to your music, the way you like it. And I would agree with that.

 

[Figo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Listen to well recorded marching band music on a good horn system then say that. It may actually scare you in a room to hear something meant to be played in the open air caged up and in your face at original spls

I have, well, almost. Not a horn system, but big system it was.

the radiating area of the bass drums alone would require a ridiculous number of 18 inch drivers.. these things are big..

That line of drums sets of car alarms from 30 feet away

Our route to the football field goes through the parking lot.. we leave a wake of obnoxious alarms behind us

The best part of marching band is when we all fit into the band room (cramped!) to record, although we all come out with hearing damage sadly.

I stand by my statement, I wish everyone could hear the power of a drumline.

 

[saint.panda]

Apart from the article's narcissistic touch, I definately agree with his premises that you can't 1:1 reproduce the original event and I also concur with his conclusion that "Your goal should be to find the translator that speaks your language." even though or probably just because it is a very vague and subjective notion.

It's somehow reminiscent of the Audio Hell article by Audio Note, which rejects the - what they call - "Comparison by Reference" (with "reference" being the live event) but concludes by saying that the audio system's goal is to produce the highest amount of contrast or differences ("Comparison by Contrast"), which is a rather objective point of reference again. The Audio Hell article states that accuracy should still be the main objective.

For example, when I go to a concert, it's not the sax I'm hearing but rather the sax amplified by the PA system. And even if we were to take unplugged real life instruments and voices are as an absolute reference, there would stil be a mic, preamp, ADC, etc. - which will alter the original signal - to save the session on a CD. Let's say a CD player is to reproduce the original event but the original event can't be the same as the one on the CD (although pretty close hopefully) and we can't know what's on the CD unless we play it through a system. So we're at starting point again.

I believe that all good Hifi systems more or less reproduce instruments and human voices in a way that matches reality quite closelyand it's not like a sax will suddenly sound like a trumpet just because I'm using a different amp or cd player. The instruments might take on a different timbre but since we can't possibly know the actual timbre (meaning the timbre stored the CD, not of the live event because that one is gone forever), it's probably a fruitless endeavour to achieve the unquestionable accuracy.

So I don't think the 6moons author simply wrote an open invitation to euphonic colorations although these colorations could be justified in the language of the beholder.

Just my 2 cents but I think it's a good article.

 

[The_Mac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figo I have, well, almost. Not a horn system, but big system it was. the radiating area of the bass drums alone would require a ridiculous number of 18 inch drivers.. these things are big.. That line of drums sets of car alarms from 30 feet away Our route to the football field goes through the parking lot.. we leave a wake of obnoxious alarms behind us The best part of marching band is when we all fit into the band room (cramped!) to record, although we all come out with hearing damage sadly. I stand by my statement, I wish everyone could hear the power of a drumline.

I used to be a member of the colour guard for the marching band we have in the city, and I'll tell you, I HAVE heard marching music faithfully reproduced. One of the piccolo players' had a really great sound system in his basement, it had horn loaded bass, mid, tweeter, and super-tweeters, each driver was amplified individually, and the amps used for the bass drivers were 1100 watt Krell amps. It did sound real.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figo The best part of marching band is when we all fit into the band room (cramped!) to record, although we all come out with hearing damage sadly.

Why not record outside?